Episode 9 : Phil Avoided Back Surgery (L5-S1 disc herniation), Eliminates 90% of Pain in 8 Weeks of Limitless

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Phil Norvold, ⁠Whealth Limitless member⁠:

"On May 23rd, I reached out to the Whealth team in a desperate attempt to avoid back surgery.

My neurosurgeon had just diagnosed me with a 5mm L5-S1 disc herniation that was crushing my sciatic nerve, and insisted that a microdiscectomy was my next option, as everything I tried for the previous 3 months didn’t help.

From March to May, I tried an emergency epidural, yoga, Thai massage, sauna, dry needling, ibuprofen, muscle relaxers, painkillers, cold plunging.. but the pain was relentless, worsening, shooting down my leg & making every day a struggle.

My work, travel, & responsibilities as a father/ husband were all suffering tremendously, so I needed to find a way out.

On May 23rd, I faced a crucial decision: undergo back surgery or try the Whealth Limitless Program, which I had seen online help others like me overcome their back pain. I scheduled a consultation with co-founder Cameron Borch who helped me believe in myself, and I decided to give the program my all before resorting to surgery.

I started Limitless that afternoon and created a schedule to follow each 30 min daily workout. I awkwardly introduced myself in the private facebook community and began learning the basics, posting videos, and getting private coaching. 

Within 8 weeks, I eliminated 90% of my pain.

By the end of week 1, I could sit comfortably with less pain, put my shoes on, and travel on a plane. 3-4 weeks in, my range of motion started returning, I got stronger, and the pain was at 50%

By week 5, my neurosurgeon told me in a follow up that he no longer recommended surgery, changing his mind, and that what I was doing WAS WORKING! By week 6, I was back on a bike, and during week 8, I got back to jiu jitsu rolling and I cycled 120 miles.

This program not only gave me my life back but also taught me the importance of balance and intentionality. I’ve decided to run it one more time, as I’ve regained my pre-injury abilities but still have room for improvement. I’ll be at 100% in no time. This program is priceless, and it works if you work it." - 39 year old Phil Norvold

Use code PHILPOD for $100 off our programs, risk free, with our 30 day $ back guarantee.

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Podcast Transcript:

[00:00:00] Katie: In this episode of the podcast, we are going to go into Andrew's recent back injury and a little bit of background into his previous back injury many years 

[00:00:09] Andrew: ago. And I think one of the bigger takeaways from this episode is probably gonna be around the mindset. So, you know, we focus a lot on movement and that's a huge component of what we teach in our programs and also what you see on our social media.

But this platform, Podcasting is going to be a great way for us to talk about the mindset behind a lot of the things that we teach, uh, inside of our programs and what we feel is probably one of the more important components that contribute to pain. So I hope that you get some awesome bits of information from this, and I have a feeling you'll resonate with 

[00:00:45] Katie: it.

Leave us a comment wherever you're listening, or on Instagram somewhere. We stare at screens all day and we really like to interact with you guys. 

[00:00:55] Andrew: We're in the same place every day. , save us. [00:01:00]Enjoy.

Welcome to The Wealth Podcast everyone. I'm Andrew Deach, and this is Katie Gas. And we took a pretty large hiatus. We did three episodes for this podcast, and then we had a bunch of things happen that just took our time away. And now we're back to working on the podcast. This time I'm producing it and it's all new for me, so we'll see how this turns out in the long run.

Let us know what we need to improve on for the next one. We're going to be talking about my back injuries. I think Katie's gonna be doing like an interview type deal with me. We don't need to wear these. We can take them off. Yeah, we're taking off our headphones. We're not talking to anybody. There's no sound coming through our speakers.

We don't need those. Great. Uh, we're gonna be going over my back issues mm-hmm. that I've had and you're gonna be the, um, 

[00:01:52] Katie: the interviewer. Interviewer. You are the interviewee. 

[00:01:56] Andrew: So, All right. To start [00:02:00] off, Oh, we were gonna talk about Element. Oh yeah, we, We don't have a sponsor for the podcast we made. It's fun to mention something ourselves, 

[00:02:07] Katie: some element at the beginning.

The grapefruit flavor is my favorite by far. This is something that we've been using on a daily basis for. More than a year now, I don't remember exactly when we started. Two years, two or three years. Two or three years. Um, they have a bunch of flavors. They're great. What is it? It is an electrolyte mix that comes in a little packet.

It is sodium, magnesium, potassium, and the flavors are awesome. It doesn't have a bunch of added junk in it like a lot of brands do. I'm very sensitive to additives and can't tolerate corn products, which are in almost everything, most of the time. Multiple dextrin things like that come from corn, um, doesn't have any of that.

It is sweetened with Stevia. And then they also have one that is unflavored. So if you don't want the flavoring or if you're someone who doesn't tolerate tevia, they have an unflavored one. I don't. [00:03:00] Like the unflavored one does 

[00:03:01] Andrew: the trick. It tastes like chlorinated water. So 

[00:03:04] Katie: it's not my favorite , but the flavored ones are great.

We make popsicles with them. The kids love 'em. I feel way better about giving the kids a water bottle with element in it than giving 'em the Gatorade that has, I mean like red food coloring and corn syrup and a bunch of junk 

[00:03:19] Andrew: in it. So, so I don't know how this will work, but you're gonna click a link we below.

We 

[00:03:24] Katie: can put a link below and you can get a free gift with your purchase. So if you wanna try out Element, they will give you a free gift. I believe it is a sample pack of all the flavors. So if you choose one flavor, um, try it out. And then you get a sample pack for free with all of the flavors. And they have watermelon, raspberry, orange, citrus, all the fruits.

Yeah, grapefruit is seasonal. It's my favorite type. Have a chocolate, chocolate mint. 

[00:03:51] Andrew: All right. Enough of them. 

[00:03:53] Katie: Shall we? Let's get into the podcast. Uh, okay. I would like to start with you talking about your [00:04:00] original back injury. That was back 

[00:04:03] Andrew: in 2013, and this is what a lot of people already know me for. We were talking about that injury, and then we're also gonna talk about a more recent injury that I had that I haven't fully talked about.

I shared about it on social media. I've shared about it in our communities for our program, but not in this format. So to start, What's 

[00:04:22] Katie: that? I was gonna say, I know that we've talked about the original injury a little bit on the previous podcasts that we did here, and I know that we've talked about 'em on a lot of podcasts that we've been guests on a lot of them, so we don't need to go too deep into that.

But just to give just a Okay. Brief background of what 

[00:04:38] Andrew: occurred. So I had a 10 millimeter dose herniation, durst, a disc herniation in my lower back, my L four L five, if anyone cares to know the, the metrics there. And what that created for me was a lot of lower back pain as well as severe sciatica down both of my legs and sciatica kind of feels like, uh, like an electrical [00:05:00] fire kind of shooting down your legs all the way down to the feet.

Um, and you can kind of feel the whole line going from the lower back down into your toes. And it was constant, uh, it prevented me from standing upright. Every time I tried to straighten myself upright, I'd feel an extra pull. Uh, prevented me from sleeping well. I really wasn't able to focus on anything other than the pain that I was experiencing.

This lasted for two years. Um, I had multiple surgeons tell me I needed to have surgery, and physical therapists told me that, chiropractors told me that. And I knew from working in the clinic with people and from people in my family, that once you have a surgery, you have a much higher likelihood of having another surgery because the surgery doesn't always solve the issue.

In a lot of cases that I had seen, it was too risky. Mm-hmm. , it was like, yes, it might solve it, and also it might make it way worse and it may really prevent you from making improvements because of the scar [00:06:00] tissue that's created. Scar tissue's, one of the bigger issues that, um, you know, causes problems for people when it comes to surgery.

And, um, I didn't wanna go that route, so I took the, the conservative route of exploring. I started by taking a lot of medications. . Um, not that that's conservative, but I was taking a lot of pain meds. Uh, I went through about a thou thousand ibuprofen. I did end up getting a cortisone injection a few months after the injury, and that worked for a week.

Ultimately, after the cortisone injection wore off, I was like, the pain meds are barely doing anything. I just stopped taking all the medications cuz I felt like there were a lot of other side effects that were occurring from taking all the, the tramadol and meloxicam. And remember the other ones 

[00:06:45] Katie: you did say though, right?

That the, the one positive thing that you did get out of that injection was that you did have a very brief period of feeling better, which gave you just enough to, to kind of clinging onto that and keep working, 

[00:06:58] Andrew: being patient. [00:07:00] Yeah. It was like, oh, this is what it feels like to not have pain. And during that time they told me, All right, don't move your back.

Cuz the more you move your back, the more you're going to squish the cortisone out of there and it's going to last. Um, you know, it won't last as long so. I didn't move, I wore a back brace. I kept my spine like super neutral everywhere I went. And I didn't really live during that time still, but I didn't have pain.

I was able to sleep, which was a huge win for me. And, um, you know, go to the bathroom and not have pain. That was awesome. But ultimately it came back full force a week later. All the pain. Mm-hmm. , nothing had had changed other than the fact that it was, I knew what it was like to not have it. Um, go for it.

[00:07:42] Katie: So then you like, fast forwarding a little bit, you got into making programs after you completely recovered, started working with people in the clinic, then you started doing online programs, started helping people and. You felt great [00:08:00] for how long? 

[00:08:01] Andrew: Seven years after, after that. So it was like 2013, 2015 I had sciatica and it was like, it got gradually better over those two years.

It's not like it stayed the same the whole time got gradually better about the two year mark, it was all gone and I was able to do everything, like I was doing lots of dead lifting, squatting, I was doing burpees, I did CrossFit during that, that whole time after my injury. CrossFit isn't what created the injury.

Um, I didn't talk about that here, but the injury was just me not knowing what my body was doing and what I was doing in the gym. Uh, ultimately like a cough is what triggered the original injury, but that isn't the thing that caused it. Um, you know, there were a lot of other things that led up to that, but after that period of time, I was able to do everything and I got stronger and stronger.

Stronger during that time. 

[00:08:50] Katie: So during that time when you were healing, you said that the sciatica improved. Gradually. Mm-hmm. and consistently, were there any times where it [00:09:00] got worse or was it just a consistent, gradual improvement? 

[00:09:03] Andrew: Cool. I don't think I've ever talked about this. Um, yeah, I saw gradual improvement and then there would be some stagnant points where like nothing would change for a month at a time.

And then there would be some instances where it would flare up and it would get a lot worse. And that would be from like me trying to do some movements or exercises that would cause me to just lay up on the, you know, lay down on the floor. The sciatica would be 10 out of 10, It would be constant burning, and it would last that way for a few days, and then it would kind of go back to where it was because I just continued to work on the exercises that I knew had originally helped it.

So it was this, there was a bit of exploration, like I. I was practicing with movements that I hadn't done in a while, and it would kind of set things off and it's like, Okay, do I need to avoid that movement? Maybe not. Maybe I need to modify like the depth or the number of repetitions or the [00:10:00] number of sets that I had done, or the difficulty the time, whatever it was I was doing that caused the flareups.

At this point, I don't remember what, what they were, That was like nine years ago, No, seven, eight years ago. So I don't know what those specific movements were that caused the flares, but I remember there being like three or four of those. And even after, even after the, it got better so that after that two year period of time I started CrossFit.

There were a couple of times where my back would get really, really like tight and it would create a little bit of sciatic symptoms and I'd get like super nervous and it would only last like a few days and I would just continue to get stronger. So there were always these little kind. Like setbacks, that would happen every like six to 12 months for a couple years after it got better.

But it, it never lasted long enough for me to really like, dwell on it and I just continued to get stronger and they, they got better faster each time too. 

[00:10:55] Katie: That was gonna be my question was how did you know that it was safe to continue doing what you were [00:11:00] doing and how did you not get trapped in being fearful that, you know, sometimes people will do something like CrossFit and then will have a flare up or a setback with their body, whatever joint issue problem they have and you know, they will take that as a, Well, I can't do CrossFit because it hurts.

So how did you navigate that and not let that scare you? 

[00:11:20] Andrew: Well, I knew that I was making improvements and it was the, the CrossFit coach that I was with at the time really helped me overcome my initial problems that I had and I had trust in, in him, first of all. So I had someone as a guide that could help me through this stuff.

And, um, he had no problem regressing things for me in the gym cuz I, you know, CrossFit, you follow the written workouts and he would just regress things, you know, tell me what, what to change. But when I had the initial kind of flare up, of course I had those like, Oh my God, like, not again, like, am I gonna be doing this for another two years, type of thing.

But then really just [00:12:00] having the, the awareness that I was starting to gain in my body and understanding that like the sensations I was feeling weren't the same, uh, they were a lot more muscular. And, um, it wasn't so much like the disc because for me, with my disc injury, I didn't necessarily have a, a lot of like back pain in the lower back.

It was like any movements I did with my spine created pain down to my feet, but the lower back pain wasn't really there. Uh, if I, if I like really rounded my spine, I would feel like it kind of felt like a dagger right in the middle of my back. That's kind of what the disc felt like to me. But for the most part, I didn't have any lower back pain.

But during these flow flareups I did, which told me that this was a different scenario and it was more off to the side. So I could feel it being like more muscular kind of spasms in a way, but not, not like I recently had. And, um, we'll get into that and sometimes that, that tightness can create, like, [00:13:00]recreate some of the symptoms, especially if I still have.

Or had a, a disc herniation or something like that. And having that tension down there could definitely recreate some of those static symptoms. So the root was a little bit different than, than it was originally, and it got better way faster. Like the next day I'd wake up feeling like way better, and then the next day I'd wake up feeling way better.

So it just improved on its own really quickly each time. 

[00:13:24] Katie: Cool. All right. So back to that period. You had a long period of time when you were feeling great. What were you doing during that time? You touched on that you had online program. What? 

[00:13:37] Andrew: Yeah, I, I was working in the clinic with, with patients, so during the time that my injury and after I was working with people and kind of putting the things I was learning with my body to the test with other people's bodies and seeing those, making improvements for people.

And during that process I discovered that I really had to focus on my entire body and not just [00:14:00] my lower back. And the same went for everyone else in the. And I, I'd take people through like what their feet were doing, what their shoulder blades are doing. You know, I can do all that, that crazy shoulder blade stuff.

And, um, I hear Austin on his bike, say hi to our neighbor. If you hear a motorcycle, just say hello Austin in the comments, wherever you're listening to this . And, um, he's got me all flustered . It may not even pick it up. So what, what working with patients in the clinic? Yeah, working with patients in the clinic and realizing that for me, I had to work on everything from the ground up to make a difference in my back.

Cause everything is, for lack of a better term, connected and. When people would come in with shoulder pain or neck pain or foot pain, we would have to take them through the entire body because I noticed that like, okay, if I'm gonna work with someone's shoulder, they're doing this shoulder stuff, but then the rib [00:15:00] cage is moving around, I'm like, Okay, well I can't, I can't get, their rib cage is stopped moving around without focusing on the, the core positioning, the alignment there.

And you can't do that without assessing the pelvis. And the pelvis is intimately impacted by the, the feet and the hip position and the hip strength and rotation. So it was like very natural that when we started working with someone, we just worked on the chain. So as I learned this, I was applying it to myself and eventually we came to a point, cuz we started to grow pretty massive social media following at the time.

I'm like, I could take this method to an online, you know, market. I could make it. Something cuz I'm doing the same things with people in person. People are like, I don't want a cookie cutter program. Like I'm giving you a cookie cutter program in person and you have no idea and it's working. So I took it online and it works there too.

So despite not wanting a Cookie Cutter Pro program, some people thinking that they, they need something very specific to them that isn't [00:16:00] necessarily the case. I would do that with people in person and they had no idea. I was just giving them the same exact program. Um, and that became very successful. , we, we had about 20,000 people go through that program before I left that business.

How was 

[00:16:15] Katie: that? Um, just on a side note, growing, growing the social media, how, how did that work? 

[00:16:22] Andrew: It, it was, um, How did it work? Well, we'd make content daily or sometimes we'd batch the content all in, all in one or two days for a couple weeks or two, two or three weeks. And, um, I would have to edit. Write post, do the comments, and interact with the social media every single day of my life for, what was that, five, six years.

And I continued to do that now . So it's been, that's why I was asking since seven or eight years of me just being on social, I was looking at my, I was talking to my mom today about like, my insights on my, on my, the iPhone. It tells you like how [00:17:00] long you're on certain apps and it's like you've been on social media for seven and a half hours today and like that, that's my average is about six and a half hours a day on social media.

Um, just communicating with people and, and whatnot. So 

[00:17:16] Katie: GM's comments? Yep. Post So fast forwarding to this past June, do you wanna fill in anything else during that time? 

[00:17:27] Andrew: I mean, Oh, well, I mean, I, during that time, like there were, there was like a five year period of, by Austin, there was like a five year period of time.

Where I didn't have any back issues. Nothing like, you know, people would ask you, Is your back okay now? I'm like, Yeah. Like I deadlifted 4 55 pounds. Um, I was doing CrossFit competitions, you know, with ridiculous weights and ridiculous reps under incredible fatigue, uh, all the time. And my back was [00:18:00] awesome.

[00:18:01] Katie: And you also did have a diagnosis during 

that 

[00:18:04] Andrew: time? Yes, yes. And you're the one that, that led that to me, Yes. Or led me to that rather. Uh, so I was diagnosed with hyper mobiles, down low syndrome, which we've talked about in previous podcasts. Just gives me, I have super stretchy connective tissue and that doesn't just affect the joints.

That also affects, um, you know, my eyes, my teeth, my gut, uh, my skin. Um, Not, not so much my nervous system, I don't think, but overall I've experienced a lot of injuries. Mm-hmm. , um, as a result of having that. And we're not gonna talk about those, but I've had joints, joint injuries in every single joint in my body.

And that has also helped me really figure out what things are most beneficial to do in terms of like isolated movements and what has helped me feel the best and helped other people feel the best. 

[00:18:56] Katie: Great. All right, so fast forwarding back [00:19:00] again to last June, which was, what month are we in? September.

September. It's a few months ago. Spring, June. 

[00:19:08] Andrew: What happened in June? Okay. So we did our last podcast in May and it is September now. Yeah. Okay. I was looking at when we did our last podcast, and the reason is we wanted to get our podcasts. Kind of set up because we were launching a hype mobility program and I was going full bo with that program.

So during the months of April and May, we were filming, writing, editing, building the program for hype mobility. And I had that pretty much built out by the June 1st, I think. And 

[00:19:41] Katie: when we, when we go into program building mode, um, all of our other responsibilities don't go away . So it's just a lot more work.

It's really long days. It's a lot of hours. Um, it's a pretty low quality of life for us when we're building new programs at this [00:20:00] point in time because we don't have, um, many employees. 

[00:20:04] Andrew: Yeah. And as a result there's, you know, a little bit less sleep, there's a little bit, it's less self-care. Uh, I was still getting in a lot of my workouts, so basically I'm getting.

Sharing that there was a lot of stress during this time. Yes. Um, and we were also planning to travel, you know, drive from North Carolina to Wisconsin in like the first, or first or second week of June. And it was June 3rd that I went outside to do a little workout with my boy and we were making a, an obstacle course and I had just, I warmed up my deadlift.

I was doing 305 pounds for a few reps there, and it was all great and felt awesome. And then I went over to my sandbag and picked that up, threw it over my shoulder, turn around, went to pick it up again, and I felt like 10 rips on the left side of my lower back. And. And I immediately dropped it. My back immediately seized [00:21:00] up and like just clenched down and I couldn't flex or extend my back at all.

Just completely locked up. And I was like, well . And this 

[00:21:09] Katie: is Andrew made a highlight reel on his Instagram of this, I think you actually recorded the obstacle course that you guys had set up out there. Yes. So there, there's some footage of that. You can look at the highlight reel on his Instagram page.

It's at the dot shirtless dude. And you can see some video footage of this process and the stuff that we're gonna continue to talk about a little 

[00:21:33] Andrew: bit here. Yeah. And that was so having this injury and like I immediately was like, okay, maybe this is just a little tweak. I'm like, definitely doesn't feel like my SI joint went out.

Like I know what joints feel like when they get locked up, you know, it's very sharp pain and. This was, um, like a muscle season. I've feeling the rips, uh, was a pretty clear indicator, especially on one side that, you know, it was either my paraspinals or [00:22:00] my ql that that was kind of torn there. I had a strain in this, in this instance, and, um, I know what it's like to have a disc injury.

I know, I know what it's like to have a bulge and a herniation and to have sciatica, and I had none of that. Um, so, you know, there were a lot of people that asking me like, how do you know that it's a muscle strain? Yeah, I don't, I know because I've had a lot of different types of back pain, a lot of different injuries throughout my body, and this feels muscular to me.

And that, that was like the clear indicator. So I came inside and I was like, debating. I'm like, I'm the person that I've helped tens of thousands of people with their lower back injuries because I've overcome mine and I've talked for years about I, how I haven't had any back injuries. Or back pain at all.

And I had this like second guessing myself, like, who am I? Like why, Why do I feel like I have any authority to share anything when I, I'm completely sidelined right now. I'm laying on the floor [00:23:00] and what do I do? Do I share this with my following or do I just go dark for a few weeks, Like I'm embarrassed that I'm injured?

Do I share this situation? I ultimately was like, I'm need to just be authentic and be who I am. I've always been that way on my social media. So I shared about it and I was pretty re like reluctant to do it and it was received very well. Um, and that kind of gave me like, uh, some, I guess you could say like an ego boost in the sense that, okay, I'm doing the right thing here.

And, and I I didn't share for a couple days cuz I was struggling and I'll talk about that in a second after I shared that I had a back injury and that like, I'm gonna get through this and like, you know, I'm gonna. Adjust my expectations here. Mm-hmm. , instead of working toward lifting heavy like I was a week ago, I'm going to work toward like doing some rehab, really basic movements.

That's my goal from, from here on until I feel good enough to start implementing new things again. And [00:24:00] within, I think it was like five hours after the injury is when I had the first like super duper spasm. 

[00:24:09] Katie: Yeah. And I think there were some other things occurring at the same time that was adding some stress for us.

Um, yeah. You mentioned that we, we had planned this trip to Wisconsin. We were gonna drive to Wisconsin to visit my family, who we had not seen since before. Covid, I think. Mm-hmm. , most of my family. Um, one of my brothers was flying in from out west and was gonna be meeting up with us and the cousins were gonna be playing together.

So the boys were really excited, really looking forward to this. We had been planning for this trip for a while. Um, and, um, my grandmother, who I was very, very close to, passed away during Covid and we were planning on spreading her ashes during that. And one of my cousins was getting married, so there was kind of a lot, uh, involved with this trip that we had planned.

And [00:25:00] I also had an abscess tooth that decided, like a tooth that got an abscess infection. Um, and I had been in just a significant amount of pain and had been debating whether or not we could take this trip to Wisconsin. I was trying to get in to see an endodontics, to get a root canal and had finally that day, I think it was after.

After you hurt your back, but you hadn't really told me that you really hurt your back was 

[00:25:30] Andrew: like, We're we're going, we're going to Wisconsin. 

[00:25:32] Katie: No problem. I'm fine. I'm fine. He came upstairs and you know, was walking and was, you know, said they heard his back, but I'm fine. We can go. And I made the decision based off my tooth, that we were not going to Wisconsin, that I needed to get in with endodontist and get the root canal.

I just was having such severe pain and as I feel like it, it was like within 15 minutes. Yeah. Shortly after I made the decision and called my family and said that we were not going, [00:26:00] um, He, Andrew had just 

[00:26:02] Andrew: walking through our kitchen here and I started, I was like, I'm, I need to go to the restroom. So I started walking to the restroom and I was like starting to hold onto things to move around like pretty intensely.

Like I was pretty leaned over and like I was struggling to walk around all of a sudden. And then I didn't have this one space here to hold onto things and I was already leaning forward. And I think the combination of having the tear and just leaning forward caused it to go into super spasm and it spasm for a good like 20 minutes straight.

And I like fell to the floor, not because I lost control of my legs or anything, but because it hurts so damn much. And I, I've never experienced lower back pain to that extent before. Um, and just completely dropped me the floor laying there and just screaming. The kids are looking at me like, What the hell?

I told the kids through out some words, 

[00:26:54] Katie: Go outside. I was like, He's okay. Go outside. Like it was scary for them to see him [00:27:00] in that much pain. Um, so I sent them outside to play and then assessed the situation and, uh, we got outta chair and elevated his legs and tried. Find a position that was comfortable for him to at least just sit and breathe 

[00:27:15] Andrew: because I couldn't get it to stop spasming for that period of time to like got my legs up and was able to finally calm down.

And then I think it took me like an hour to get from there to the, the couch that's right behind this camera here. And, um, just, just because it would, it would continue to like re spasm and that was for the first few days, that was like the thing that it wanted to do. And, um, we talked immediately about getting some muscle relaxers to, to get it to calm down because, you know, we're not fans of a lot of like medication and stuff like that when it's used without any, any plan in place.

Without, yeah, without any like, Doing any [00:28:00] work yourself. Like if you're just only taking medication, you're not doing exercise, you're not changing your diet, you're not getting better sleep, like you're not doing something to find a way to get off the medication, then I think medication is definitely a problem, but it is a tool and I wanted to use it immediately.

Yep. 

[00:28:16] Katie: So we, um, let's see. When you were having the spasms, I opened up the couch, which pulls out into a bed and actually threw some, I think, threw some sheets on it and we were finally able to get you up and onto the 

[00:28:32] Andrew: bed. And once I got there, I was there for 24 hours. Yeah. I did not, I did not get up. Yeah.

From there I had to stay in like one position. It would usually take me about five or 10 minutes to roll over if I needed to. Yeah. And. It was just constantly spasming. I would like wiggle my foot and my back would start to spasm. I'd have to stop and like I would hold my breath and that only makes it worse.

Mm-hmm. . And so all the things that I know [00:29:00] about pain and injury, I was like really having to put it to practice right then and there. Yeah. Cause again, I've injured a lot of things. This is like the one super cute spasm that I've, that I've experienced that was like, I'm fucked. Yeah. I can't do pelvic tilts.

I can't do any movements with my body right now. I just need to completely rest. 

[00:29:24] Katie: So we called our doctor who, um, we see remotely and he's great. And he ordered, you know, asked us all the, the typical questions. Cuo Yep. Asked us, uh, all the typical questions to just make sure that it, you know, there wasn't something more serious going on.

And then he ordered the muscle relaxer. Um, unfortunately this was evening by the time this was taking place and the pharmacy closed before I could get there and pick up the muscle relaxer. And the city we live in is not huge and we found out that [00:30:00] night that there are no 24 hour pharmacies in this entire area, 

[00:30:05] Andrew: which I don't know much about.

That doesn't, I'm like, 

[00:30:07] Katie: that's crazy to me. , That's crazy to me. I've never, I don't think I've ever lived anywhere where there hasn't been a, a 24 hour pharmacy. Yeah. Um, anyway, so we were not able to get the muscle relaxer that night. Um, so we relied heavily on, I think, was it the heating pad that was helpful?

[00:30:22] Andrew: Um, pad and I'm pretty sure we, I took, we just maxed, I alternated Ibuprofen and Tylenol. Yep. Um, which, Didn't stop the spasms, but it reduced the amount of like pain, like the heat and mm-hmm. throbbing that was occurring in the lower back. And so during this time, I, I had obviously the thoughts of like, oh my gosh, you know, I have a pretty significant injury right now, and at the same time I also know what I need to do.

So I didn't really have that dark of a, [00:31:00] like, like the super negative mindset. Like, Oh man, I'm screwed for life. Like I'm, you know, I'm never gonna be able to do the things I wanna do again, I didn't ever really go that route. I immediately kind of went toward, these are things I need to do. I need to rest.

It's an acute injury. I know that I need to rest and I need to set aside all of my expectations for, for fitness and like all the things that I do. Like, I'm not going to be lifting heavy, I'm not gonna be doing crazy exercises. Um, You know, I don't know how long this will take, but it'll be an important journey and because I'd already decided to share it with social media, that was very helpful for me to be like, I'm just going to show how this can be overcome in, you know, a more positive mindset, you know, maybe faster way.

I'm not sure how you would gauge if it could be done faster or not. Cuz it's just me doing it. I'd have to re-injure myself the same way to find out. Um, so what 

[00:31:57] Katie: was going through your mind? Cause I know that there [00:32:00] were some points where you were pretty upset. 

[00:32:04] Andrew: Yeah, so I, there were a couple points where I cried and I'm just like, it hurts.

Like I can't move. I ended up peeing in bottles for like 36 hours there because I couldn't get up, I couldn't move, I wouldn't, I couldn't get to the restroom. And, um, I was just frustrated that like I was completely sidelined, like I couldn't do anything. And I often thought about people that were alone.

Mm-hmm. , I was like, I have Katie. I have the boys that can like get me things and do things, take care of me. But I'm like, I can't imagine being alone in this situation. And at the same time, it made me wonder if I was alone, would it help me get better faster, or would it make this take longer because it would force me to have to move and like do something for myself.

Um, Whereas, you know, in a way you enabled me a little bit those first few days until she [00:33:00] was like, You need to get 

[00:33:00] Katie: yours up. I went into, I mean, I just went right back into nurse mode. Like I had out my notepad and I was writing down doses of Tylenol and ibuprofen and timing and you know, so I didn't have getting, think about, set up with everything that he needed.

I mean, if I had a call light, I would've given him a call light. But like he had like the urinal, like all the things that he needed. And it was like that for a couple, you know, a couple of days where I was, you know, making meals and helping you. You know, get clean clothes on and get washed up and brush your teeth.

Cause I mean, you weren't getting out of bed at all for a, I think like two days. The 

[00:33:39] Andrew: second day I was doing some exercises in the bed, like I was doing some pelvic tilts. I got onto all fours and like, just transitioning from being on my back to, onto all fours took about an hour. Mm-hmm. . And because any little, like, excessive movement, it wasn't to the point where like, I'd move my ankle and I was gonna spasm.

That kind of went away pretty quickly within a, within a day. [00:34:00] But like any bigger movement, um, even just trying to like lift my torso off the bed would set my back off into a spasm. So I had to move very slowly. I had to breathe the whole time. And it was just this, like, my arms were so tired, just like taking all the load and like pushing my body into these positions because when it did spasm, I would, I would be just like, eh, just wrenched up.

It would tighten up so hard and. , 

[00:34:27] Katie: um, you would just sweat and the whole 

[00:34:29] Andrew: body. Yeah. My whole body is sweat and tense and like I would be stuck there for another five or 10 minutes, which just kinda slowed things down. Mm-hmm. and I probably had maybe 10 to 15 of those spasms in that first four days. Even with the, the muscle relaxers, they, they reduced the length of the spasm and the, i, the intensity was reduced, but they didn't stop them from occurring.

Um, but I was grateful that it, it stopped the intensity cuz it was pretty gnarly. And um, [00:35:00] then on day three, you know, you had talked to some people and I was kind of just getting more dependent on like, you know, people bring me things think you were, it wasn't like I was sitting there being like, Yes, I have slaves.

It was . It was just like 

[00:35:16] Katie: you, I think you were stuck on the couch and so I think you 

[00:35:19] Andrew: were Oh yeah. I started playing games in my phone and like, I was, uh, you know, watching TV and like just being the potato. 

[00:35:29] Katie: So I think after a few days of that and me taking care of the kids and taking care of you and, and seeing that you were able to, at that point we had gotten you up, we'd used chairs almost like a walker.

We'd gotten you into the bathroom, like you were able to do some things. Yep. And I think it was at that point that I kind of, when 

[00:35:49] Andrew: Katie was like, All right, you're being a little bitch . I didn't say that. She didn't say that, but she said that. Um, 

[00:35:59] Katie: so I, yeah, [00:36:00] give you a little kick. 

[00:36:01] Andrew: So I got up and, uh, I started walking a bit more.

Like I started making goals of, all right, I'm gonna walk for five minutes. So I'd get up with my walker, Katie, put the towels under the chair here, and I'd walk with that for five minutes and it would get really tired after that five minutes. And I'd wait another like hour and a half or so, and I'd get up and I'd try eight minutes, 10 minutes, something like that.

By the end of the day, I did like a 30 minute back and forth walk and then it made pretty drastic improvement going forward from there, which was kind of cool cuz it's like, could I have gotten up on day two and started doing that stuff? I don't know, maybe would it have gotten things done faster? Maybe.

But it was nice to just give it that period of rest. So that's where I'm kind of, I think about the people that are alone. I'm like, would they have had the opportunity to rest during that period or would they have improved faster because they'd gotten their body moving [00:37:00] faster? Cuz like you have to, you can't just defecate in the bed.

Like that was my deciding factor. Like, I need to get up because otherwise I'm gonna poop in the bed. . 

[00:37:09] Katie: And that, that was actually a conversation that we had to have of like, if you try to get up and you can't, you know, Then you have to let me be the nurse. . 

[00:37:20] Andrew: So those are, and I was like, I was too stubborn. So I found a way to get to the bathroom.

It took about 45 minutes . And um, and you know, so I, I still think about like, it was great to have those two days rest and then to start moving on day three. By day four, I had probably made a 50% improvement and it was still hurting a lot. Like it would still spasm here and there. But I think my spasm, I probably had one spasm that day and I was walking more.

I probably walked for a total of two or three hours that day. And then day five was like, uh, I was, I was rocking. I didn't need to use, I was walking around with the, the [00:38:00] stick mobility sticks too. I totally forgot that I had to use the stick mobility sticks. And they're, they were great because they have like, On the top and the bottom.

So I would set the stick mobility sticks at different angles to help like lift me up. And then, you know, I, I, I got real crafty with it in terms of like getting up out of bed and getting off, off and on the toilet, moving around the house and stuff like that. And I'm super grateful I had those, not the intended use for what, what they're meant for, uh, but they were awesome What day?

And I got to just get rid of those sticks, you know, on like day five or six. What 

[00:38:34] Katie: day did you go upstairs? I can't remember how long it was before you showered. Four, Monday, four. Monday 

[00:38:41] Andrew: was four. I, I stayed down here for three days, but I was in the gym doing workouts on the following Monday. So I injured myself on Monday and I was back in the gym on Monday doing very light movements and walking around and like doing some light farmer carries and I was on the bike.

And then [00:39:00] Tuesday I was like, Wow, my back feels way better going through it, doing stuff. How 

[00:39:05] Katie: light, like I wanna give people a perspective. So yeah, the farmer carries. What do you normally do for Farmer? 

[00:39:10] Andrew: Carries for the farmer carries. I normally do anywhere from the 50 to the 88 pound, you know, or, you know, if I have access to something heavier than maybe the 150 pound carries.

[00:39:23] Katie: So what were you doing at that point when you were in five? Five 

[00:39:27] Andrew: pounds. Five and 10 pounds. Just to put it into perspective. So I started, you know, super light for, for me and for other people that might be one pound, two pounds. Like I obviously lift a lot of weight and then I was doing. What, what is that?

5%, 10% of my max. Um, and then I think that following week I just made huge improvements and it was like two weeks. I was just rocking. I was back to lifting. I was doing 185 pounds on my lunges within three weeks of my injury. [00:40:00] And there was another travel situation coming up. Yes. So I think why, before we move further, there's a lot of like mind stuff going on here.

So we alluded to the amount of stress involved in in June. Um, you know, leading up to June, we were launching a program in June. Um, that was like around the time that I was starting to lift weights again after my injury. We launched our hype mobility program. And we had some travel coming up. We also had one of our partners tell us that he needed to move on and that we were having to go through a repurchase agreement and just absorbing a lot of work, his tasks and stuff that we, we needed to do, including the podcast, which is why we haven't had one

And, um, so we had program launch, um, you know, change of ownership. We had travel coming up and those three things were all happening at the same time and a week [00:41:00] before. So we were gonna travel in like, so that the first week of July, uh, I think second week, second week of July. 2nd of July, the week before.

So literally two days after we, we were told that there would be a change of ownership. Um, two days after my back just went haywire. I was doing, what, what was I doing? Like, it was like a single egg bridge or something. I was doing single, like warming up downstairs. I was doing like some single leg bridges.

My back felt a little bit tight that morning. I woke up and I'm like, Wow, my back hasn't felt this tight in, in a couple weeks since, since I'd injured it a couple weeks ago. And I went downstairs and I was like, I'm gonna do some just light movement today. And I was doing those single leg bridge, did some light hinges, and I went down to do the single leg bridge again and my back just went, it's like, screw you bud.

And um, it seized up on the other side. So it wasn't the left side, it was the other side that started tweaking out. This was a week before we were supposed to travel, you [00:42:00] know, traveling from the east coast to California. It takes a couple flights and it's usually takes. 12 to 15 hours to get to your destination between like packing, driving, flying, you know, sitting in the airport, flying again, driving again, and yeah, it was, yeah, where 

[00:42:20] Katie: we live, you either have to take two flights to get anywhere pretty much, or you have to drive a couple of hours and then you can fly direct.

So I think, yeah, we had a direct flight out of Charlotte, so we had to drive a couple hours to Charlotte and then fly, flew 

[00:42:36] Andrew: into LAX, and then drive another hour and a half to the next destination. Yep. So it was a lot of travel and it was the week before and I was like, Oh, this, this doesn't feel too bad.

Like my back is tight. It feels annoyed and pissed off and it's like hurting a lot, but it's not too bad. And then every day that it got closer to the travel date, it got worse and worse and worse and worse. Nothing that I was [00:43:00] doing was helping it. It was there was, I was getting more and more anxiety.

About the fact that I'd be sitting and traveling and I wouldn't have, you know, the comfort of my home to like be there. And I'd have to sit in like really uncomfortable positions for a long period of time. And it just kept ruminating my mind. And I was like, Oh man. We were saying, I wasn't concerned about like, not, I wasn't thinking about the future.

I was just thinking like, not far in the future. I was just thinking about my travel day. And we reached out to some friends. We had some, someone came and gave me a massage and it felt great. And, uh, her name's Katie. Mm-hmm. , Uh, and, and I woke up the next day. I was like, Wow, I'm feeling great. And I went for a little walk and I was just kind of walking up and down the hill.

I'm like, Yeah, this feels good. Oh no, this wasn't it. That, that wasn't it. But that was a different time. Anyways, I tweaked it again, doing super basic exercise, really basic like, like I was laying on the floor, just kinda like lifting, lifting my leg, just tweaked it out again. [00:44:00] Started freaking out some more and.

We finally got referred to a physical therapist down the street, Dan Carmack, I think it's Dan Carmack, whipped that outta my, 

[00:44:12] Katie: for some dry needling. We'd had, you know, multiple people at this point. Were weighing in, a lot of people were sending messages, you know, people had been following along, um, on social media.

It's just slurp in that element. Sorry about that. Slrp . Um, people have been following along on social media and, you know, a lot of people had said that dry needling was super helpful and it's not something that Andrew had ever tried before he done. So we went and saw this guy for some dry needling because we were getting to the point where the trip was in a couple days.

You know, we had reservations at hotels and flights and things that, you know, if we were going to cancel the trip, we needed to do it at that point, or we were gonna lose, you know, a bunch of money. So, um, there's a lot of, a lot of stress, a lot of pressure at that point to decide, are we going to do this or [00:45:00]not?

Do you feel good enough to do this or not? So went and did the dry needling 

[00:45:05] Andrew: and it was wild, like dry needling is, I'm, I'm a huge proponent of that now, at least for muscle. Uh, spasms. Like that may be acute. I don't know about chronic stuff. I haven't tried it for that, but, um, something acute like that, it made a massive difference.

I woke up the next day going from like a 10, outta 10 pain to like a one, and I was like, Whoa. And I, I wasn't gonna push it. He gave me a few exercises to work on. I'm like, I'm, I'm gonna do those. I'm super diligent with that stuff and did those exercises and was just feeling great. I went, I'm like, I'm gonna go for a walk.

And I was walking down our hill and some neighbors walked by it. I'm like, Hi. And I just like breathed in my spit and just choked and just coughed. And that cough absolutely blew my back. Just completely like re spasmed it. And I called him and he is like, I don't usually do dry needling two days in a row, but we'd already talked about it.

And, [00:46:00] uh, so I, I went back in a few minutes later, he did it. It helped, but. It wasn't like the first time, but I could definitely feel the improvements from it again. And, uh, the next day was travel day . 

[00:46:13] Katie: So I wanna pause because I wanna go over a couple things. First of all, you know, when it comes to passive treatments, sometimes we will speak n negatively about the passive treatment most of the time and most of the time.

And I think it's important to outline your thoughts about that or for you to 

[00:46:32] Andrew: share. Yeah, so just like I talked about with the medication, it really comes down to what is the plan to get you to do the work and for you to make the change. Because you want to use the passive treatments as a tool, you wanna use the medications.

Any, any quick fixes you want to use as a tool to get you back to doing the things that are going to make the lasting changes, which is going to be your sleep, your diet, your, the movements and activity, [00:47:00] the exercises, whatever it is you're doing to just move around getting that done. Um, The relationships around you, the, the support structure.

You know how much sun you're getting. You're, you know, all, all of these things make a difference. But if all you're utilizing is quick fix treatments, you're hopping from one provider that a net to the next, you're using like massage guns and, um, cold packs. Heat packs, whatever other ridiculous products, uh, China pushes out at us.

Those little, we get back brace things and like the, the posture braces, power knees with like, you put springs behind your knees, your knees don't have to work as hard. Like just all these things people will buy. Is this a good thing? I'm like, no. The good thing is you putting in the work to make the change in the long run.

Like you can use these things as, um, you know, something in the short term, but to get you to do that stuff. But they're not going to be an end all. Uh, so utilizing the dry needling and the, the PT was an opportunity [00:48:00] to get back to doing things that I needed to do in this case, to be able to make it through travel so that I could get back to doing things I needed to do.

[00:48:07] Katie: I also think it's important to note that, you know, even professionals need professionals. Like a lot of people have heard coaches need, coaches need coaches, doctors have doctors like you. You still benefit from having someone else, um, view your situation through different lens a lot of times. Uh, I would say most things we tend to navigate.

On our own and do great with. Yeah. But with something more acute and with a lot more riding on it, with this trip pending. And you know, I think it can be really, really helpful to get some outside help. Um, as long as it's someone that you know is good and that you really trust them. Uh, we also got on the phone with, um, a doctor who we have worked with and, um, she sent us a lot of people.

Yeah. She sent us a lot of her patients over the years. Uh, [00:49:00] you know, we were able to get on and just chat with her and talk through what was going on with him and, you know, she was able to. Line us up with some people who could Dr. Do dry needling once we got to California, if we did need that. Yeah. So it was helpful to just have a plan in 

[00:49:16] Andrew: place.

She also prescribed a steroid. Yeah. Just in case. I was like, I'm not taking a steroid. I've taken steroids in the past. And I'm like, I do not wanna take it. But 

[00:49:26] Katie: to have it just in case 

[00:49:28] Andrew: it was like the nuclear bomb that I had available. It's 

[00:49:31] Katie: just, you know, like even just for a peace of mind or level, you know, a little bit of comfort.

And, um, okay, so going back to, it was travel day. So we had all of this, What did we Yeah, we actually, we brought an extra suitcase. We had a carryon suitcase, um, that we had, you know, some snacks we like to bring, We like food snacks and things with us, but we also had a set of resistance bands, a gorgeous ball, a like a beach blanket to lay down on the [00:50:00] airport floor.

Yeah. Um, which by the way, when we picked that up, 

[00:50:04] Andrew: it was, Incredibly filthy. The the floor looks clean. It is not, 

[00:50:10] Katie: that is the kind of carpeting to have whatever they chose in the airport, like it looked clean. We laid the blanket down. He did some exercises and when I picked it up, it was covered in crap. It was crazy.

Um, but we had that, we packed the power dot. We had massage 

[00:50:26] Andrew: balls. That was the power dot was helpful. Um, on the plane. Yep. Because you're stuck in the position. I'm six foot five, so anywhere on the plane sucks. We used to fly first class a lot cause we had, um, we flew a lot and we had the max tier whatever, and they just put us in first class all the time.

Even that sucks. And so just having something like turn on the muscles really helped to like get some blood flow to the area and like calm things down. Uh, I, you know, I took some medication before and on the plane. [00:51:00] Yeah. 

[00:51:00] Katie: We timed the, you know, Motrin and Tylenol and muscle relax. Um, we also brought, you know, a little pillow.

Like we had a lot of tools at our disposal and on the drive to Charlotte, we made a stop so that you could get out and walk around a little bit. When we got to the airport at that point, wasn't lying down still. The one position that you felt lying 

[00:51:26] Andrew: down was the only position that I could, like, not feel any pain, just lay there and be like, All right, great.

So it would give me some, it would like reset me and then I'd get up and then like within 30 minutes it would really like ramp up and like I was really hard to move around and walk and stuff like that. Um, obviously on the plane that was just wasn't going to be something I could do. There's too many people walking up and down aisles for me to just lay there.

I can't. 

[00:51:52] Katie: That's right. Yeah. So we boarded the plane. So we got there, we got to the airport, you laid down right until we got, we were like the last people to [00:52:00] board. Um, we tried to minimize, you know, the amount of time that we'd be stuck on the plane. So we boarded the plane and the kids and I sat on one side of the aisle.

You sat on the other, so you were, you know, kind of, I didn't have anyone 

[00:52:12] Andrew: next to me either. That was awesome. Awesome. 

[00:52:14] Katie: Yeah. You didn't have anyone next to you, but then what happened? ? I don't remember. Oh, well they, I think there was lightning or something. So they, we couldn't take off. Oh yeah. We were 

[00:52:23] Andrew: stuck them up tarmac for extra like hour and a 

[00:52:26] Katie: half and they kept saying We should be taking off any minute.

And it was like an hour and a half before we could even taxi and take off. So it added to our flight. That was already almost four and a half 

[00:52:37] Andrew: hours. It was like six to seven hours, something like that. Yeah. Um, this was the crazy person. I'm gonna fast forward, like the flight itself had hurt and it was, it was whatever, but about an hour before we landed, my back just completely started to release and it was.

Everything started to calm the hell down and we landed. And I, you know, [00:53:00] get going from sitting to standing had been incredibly difficult. Like, it would usually take me a couple minutes to sit, stand and move around. And like even on the plane when I'd use restroom, it took a lot of like time and like, I had to hold on to stuff to stand back up.

And when we landed in LAX and I stood up, I was like, I stood up and it hurt, but I just, like, I was able to stand up and I felt like way better. And then I was walking, my strides were bigger and we got to the rental car place and I was like, I'm doing all right all of a sudden. And I got in the car. And like, getting, getting into cars is tough because like the flex of my spine and everything is really painful to get into.

You know, cars are, they're tiny. Everything's tiny for me. And, um, including you and. When I was getting to my mom's house, I was just like, Wow, I feel awesome. And then went to sleep on an air mattress and that would have wrecked me. And I woke up the next morning [00:54:00] and I had like no pain. Everything was gone.

We went through our entire trip and I had no issues with my back. I did the exercises still that I needed to do. There was a little bit of like stuff there, here and there, but I was like running on the beach and I was out in the water and like doing everything that I wanted to do on 

[00:54:17] Katie: the trip. And we had, you know, leading up to the trip, we had done a lot of planning around your back situation.

Like we took the kids to a San Diego Padre's game and when we were choosing tickets, we. Chose tickets that were on the end of an aisle at the stadium at the top so that he could get up and like if he needed to get up the stand or move that we weren't like crawling over people or inconveniencing people.

So we did a lot of planning around your back leading up to it, and then it ended up being totally 

[00:54:48] Andrew: fine. Totally fine. We like, we even planned to go to San Diego Zoo and like that's for anyone that knows if you're standing around at a, like any type of amusement park, you're standing for at least eight hours that day.

[00:55:00] And it was fine. And , Katie's writing me a note, she says she needs to use the restroom, 

[00:55:09] Katie: drink a lot of element and 

[00:55:10] Andrew: a lot. So, um, we, we made it through that trip and it was totally fine until the day before we were flying back. The same thing happened. I went through the exact same sensations in my back.

That I had prior to coming out to California. You can go ahead, go, you keep talking about that. So I, I literally, all of the same things, any movements I did, going from sitting to standing, I was having to take the medications again, calm it down, which didn't do too much. And during, during the flight, like all the stuff, everything hurt, going all the way back into the plane, we did all the same stuff and I was struggling all over again and got on the flight about an hour before we landed out here in, um, [00:56:00] where am I, North Carolina.

Everything started to feel better again and I was able to get into the car, drive back here, didn't have to stop, was feeling right, got into the house, woke up the next morning and my back felt totally. And I think this really was a fun little experiment of how much the mind can play a role with our pain and our on social media.

We talk constantly about the exercises that we do and like, here's all the exercises you should do. But what we don't often talk about is the amount that our mind and our nervous system plays a role in our pain. And we talk about this a lot in our communities. We do lots of coaching calls about the mindset.

Actually, pretty much all of our coaching calls are about mindset and how the mind plays a role in your pain, as well as other factors involved in your life, aside from the movement. Cause our entire program is about movement. Most of it. I'd say [00:57:00] about 75% of our programs are movement based. And this situation really highlights how much the mind can fuck with you.

Like it absolutely by the, by the second time, like flying back. And I, it, the fact that it started hurting right before we flew again, it was like, dude, and I haven't had any issues since then, since we got back from California. I've had no problems. I've gradually increased my weight. I've back to doing heavy squats and deadlifts and doing all my things.

I'm, I think my squats almost to where it was previously before my injury. I haven't pushed my deadlift that heavy. Um, 

[00:57:38] Katie: have there been any points, have you had any. Any flare up, like any, I 

[00:57:43] Andrew: haven't had any flareups since, since we got back from, uh, California, and it's just insane how much like the, the pain increasing up to the flight to California.

And then the fact that it happened again as I was flying back, there was a lot of stress for me around [00:58:00] flying and just the, the travel days. If it was just a quick flight, like our airport's 15 minutes away and it just went straight to the destination, that would've been fine. But the fact that we had to add another, yeah, two, no, no, three and a half hours of driving on top of like sitting around at airports and stuff was.

A lot of stress for me and I in our communities, we have people talk about how they have flareups for from time to time. You know, sometimes their shoulder starts hurting again. Their neck, their lower back. We have, most of the people in our programs are come in with lower back issues and they talk.

They're like, Yeah, my back just started hurting again. I was doing so great. Like, it just doesn't make any sense. Like, I was doing all, all these things and I'm like, All right, what else is going on in your life? Well, my dog just died, or, uh, I just got a new job, or I just lost my job. I'm moving, I'm going through a divorce.

I just had a kid. Like, there's all of these things that can contribute to our pain aside from how we move. And it's [00:59:00] really common for us to focus on the movements because we can, we can control movements. It's easier to be like, All right, what exercises do I need to do? I can control doing exercises. It's something that we have control over.

But when it comes to our stressors and our anxieties, like those sometimes are things that we don't necessarily want to confront or that even know that we need to confront. And um, those are the things that I see often contribute to people having pain. It isn't always just movement patterns. 

[00:59:27] Katie: Yeah. We know that it's, you know, pain and especially chronic pain as multifactorial.

There's a lot of things that contribute to it and there are a lot of things that sling, sling a lot of things that you can improve upon. And I do agree and find that, you know, with our programs we touch on sleep, how to maximize your sleep quantity, quality, you know, all the little hacks and tips and things that you can do for that.

We focus on nutrition and all the things that you can do for that. We focus on your environment and your relationships and we focus on the [01:00:00]mindset. And I think that the mindset seems to be the thing and our thought patterns. Seem to be the thing that people oftentimes are the most resistant to. And also that yields the biggest improvements.

Yes, the movements matter, the strengthening absolutely matters. But I think it's all of those other things are external stuff, right? Like you can lower the temperature in your bedroom, you can avoid blue lights at night. You can eat healthier. Mm-hmm. , but changing your thought patterns and, and beginning to control a little bit, um, the things that you do with your mind.

Seems to be really challenging. And for some people it's something that they've just never, It's very foreign to them. It's something that they've just never experienced or done. 

[01:00:49] Andrew: Yeah, And I think our community asked, like what, when I talked about this, this story in our community, they asked what, like what would you have done to like prevent that from happening?

[01:01:00] Like the stress around traveling and how things got worse. And the answer is, I don't, I don't know, like mm-hmm. What I, all I can do is, you know, I can't anticipate when things are just gonna go haywire. Like that's, I can do all kinds of meditation and self work and then all these other things to help mitigate stress and anxiety.

But when the shit hits the fan, it hits the fan. And then what you do moving forward is what matters. And for me, it's like, my, my mindset around each of these situations isn't like all doom and gloom. It's just like, okay, what are the steps that I can control in this situation? What are the things I can do moving forward And, um, you know, adjusting my expectations.

Cuz a lot of people get stuck in their, their expectations of like, I, I want to be able to run a marathon in six months, or I want to be able to, you know, lift this heavy weight or continue to doji jujitsu or. You know, I wanna be able to lift my kids. And ultimately you just need to be able to drop those expectations and make them more reasonable.

And that's what I [01:02:00] did. And with my original injury, it's like, all right, my goal this week is to get up and go to the bathroom on my own. Like that is, it's not to squat heavy, it's to be able to get to the restroom. Uh, it's to be able to walk for an hour straight, it's to be able to, um, you know, do one squat, you know, with assistance.

It's, you know, just shifting the goals. And that's what I had to do each day during this, this injury is I'd have to, uh, adjust it to the point where it's challenging me, but not so much that it's unattainable. And that's what people get so frustrated with is when they have these goals of squatting heavy.

When they're completely sidelined and it's an unattainable goal at that moment. And they get depressed, they get sad, they're crying, they, they come to us, they feel defeated. And you just have to drop those expectations down. And it can be really hard to do that even. But it's, it's important to recognize that doing that is going to allow you to get to that ultimate goal in the long run.[01:03:00]

What 

[01:03:00] Katie: about other people's expectations? Like I know when, Well, when you were, Well, mine or the kids, I know when we had to cancel the trip to Wisconsin, both of us had a hard time with that because we were really worried about the kids and their expectations and disappointing them. And then the same thing happened again when we were facing the, the similar situation in California and feeling like, we can't cancel.

We already canceled the Wisconsin trip. We can't cancel the other trip. For them, they were so excited about going baseball 

[01:03:34] Andrew: game. I mean, I, for, for California, we, we went like, you know, I was struggling that day and we went anyways. And 

[01:03:43] Katie: that's, but I just, just think for other people. I feel like a lot of times you take on.

A lot of guilt. I remember you getting pretty frustrated in a few points. I do. I 

[01:03:52] Andrew: don't know if everyone does . 

[01:03:53] Katie: I think a lot of people do. I think especially, you know, for parents, but even people who don't have [01:04:00] kids, even if it isn't parenting guilt, it's like your family is expecting you to come visit or your friends are expecting you to come to this event and maybe you can't because of your pain or your injury and you know, how do you manage that?

How do you, how do you deal with that without letting it make things worse for you? 

[01:04:19] Andrew: Well, you know, in when we did Landmark Forum back in the day, there was a lot of like, cuz I, I was a huge, I'm still a people pleaser obviously, but I was much more so back, you know, when I was. Around, around the time my, my injury, actually, my original, original injury 2013, like before that, I was much more of a people pleaser.

And I think there, there is some training here, like you have to recognize that like you are not in control of other people's feelings and you're not in control of other people's expectations. And you can't, you can't take that on. Um, I'm not [01:05:00] 100% good at that. Like obviously we went, like, I thought about the kids, I thought about my, my mom and stuff like that, but at the same time, if I literally wasn't able to get in the car to go there, I wouldn't have had so much of a burden that I, that I would've had a long time ago in my life.

Still, I would've felt it, but I can manage it better just with that, that training that we had through mm-hmm. through the two years of the forum. Um, you know, I don't, I don't know if I, it's not like something I've overcome . 

[01:05:31] Katie: Yeah. I mean, I don't know if there's a really clear answer. I know it's just something that we.

We hear over and over in the community as well. Um, and I think it can be really difficult as a parent specifically when you're dealing with an injury or chronic pain. You know, you, you end up feeling a lot of guilt for the things that you can't do with your kids. Mm-hmm. or for the way that you're showing up for them.

It, maybe it's not what you envisioned for yourself, for anyone who's had, you know, a [01:06:00] serious disc injury or joint injury or something like that, that they've had to navigate and you've had to kind of be on the sidelines for a while when you talk about adjusting your expectations, you know, But when you're not able to pick your kids up or go outside and play with your kids, I think that it can add a lot of guilt and stress and can sometimes amplify some of the anxiety and some of the pain.

and I, you know, I don't have a, a really good solution or answer other than I think it is really important to be able to show your kids real life. And I think when you were injured, we spent a lot of time talking with the kids about, you know, how we were also disappointed and talking to them about their feelings of disappointment, about not taking the trip to Wisconsin and also explaining to them, you know, when you are sick, who takes care of you, You know?

Yeah. Mom and Andrew take care of you when you're sick and now this is your chance to, you know, show Andrew [01:07:00] that you care about him. Yeah. And help him. And, you know, you can fill up a water bottle, you can do, do things. And you know, I think sometimes we shield our kids from a lot of reality. And I think, you know, anytime that you're in a situation where there is disappointment or there is.

You know, an injury or you know, a health condition or something occurring, you know, it's a good time to, to talk about those things with your kids and talk about the feelings surrounding it and how, you know, people have injuries and then they heal and then they get better. Cause I think for them it was pretty crazy to see you who in their mind you're like the incredible Hulk, like just so strong and you know, you're always throwing them around and playing with them and stuff.

And then seeing you completely sidelined to the point that you couldn't even, you know, get up and brush your teeth or go to the bathroom was a huge adjustment for them. Like, that was kind of shocking for them to see. And I, I [01:08:00] just think it's a good opportunity to just be really transparent and authentic and, you know, reassure them that you're gonna heal and you're gonna be okay.

But it also teaches them resiliency, you know? 

[01:08:11] Andrew: Totally. Yeah. I think that would probably be the, the big thing is just being transparent with the people that are. That have those expectations and those upsets around, you're not being able to Yeah, I guess 

[01:08:21] Katie: I do things, it's like I say kids, but sometimes it's grown adults.

The 

[01:08:25] Andrew: thing is, we were doing, I, I'm coach assistant coaching soccer right now, and uh, they had me do like the, the motivational speech before and during a halftime and then like after they lost the game. And the other coaches like, You're really good at this. I'm like, I do this with adults. They're no different.

like adults are exactly the same as kids. Kids just have a little bit less of a filter sometimes. I don't know. 

[01:08:53] Katie: The adults just don't get the snacks afterward. Well, usually it's like 

[01:08:57] Andrew: beer or something. They get the snacks, don't worry. . [01:09:00] All right. 

[01:09:02] Katie: Well, if you guys have any questions about any of this, feel free to leave them in the comments.

Is there anything else that you wanna touch 

[01:09:09] Andrew: on? I, I think that was, uh, hopefully that answers some people's questions and gives you some, I guess, some peace of mind knowing that like, you know, I didn't wanna share about this stuff, but, you know, if it's, if it's beneficial to you to hear that, like, you know, I'm, I'm this dude on social media that posts I, I try to post, um, my, my setbacks, my struggles and stuff like that.

I try to be as au as authentic as possible, but hopefully it just gives you, uh, insight into like what probably a real social media influencer might look like. Uh, I know a lot of people that just kind of post the things that look the best because you know that that's a good ego boost and it also gets a lot of traction.

Um, people like to see people be like the superhero, [01:10:00] and I just, I hope it's, I, I think it's important rather that we kind of display that we are human beings and that. We're all on social media right now and it can be very unhealthy to see unrealistic lifestyles out there. Like I think, I'm just gonna throw this up.

Someone like people at this point know Liver King. I think of, I think of Liver King and I look at his stuff and everything's always positive, just hyper positive. I'm like, There's no problems in this guy's life that is not true. There has to be something in his life that isn't just hunky door positive all the time.

I don't know what that is, and it's not up for me to like figure out what that is, but I just know that everyone's got something going on and I think it creates this illusion of. , this is a perfect human being. I want to be like that. So I need to do what he's doing. But what you're missing are all the things that he's struggling with.

And that is probably the more [01:11:00] important stuff that people need to see is like, yes, you can still get to this awesome level, but it helps to know that other people do struggle at the same time. So I hope this Yeah. Was helpful to you in some 

[01:11:10] Katie: way. I think that's been one of the fun things about getting to collaborate with other content creators and other people in the industry is meeting them in real life.

And it's always interesting to 

[01:11:22] Andrew: see how much shorter everyone is. 

[01:11:25] Katie: always, um, it's, it's really interesting to see who. Is very much like their, uh, persona on social media and who's very different in real life. Mm-hmm. from what they show in social media, 

[01:11:41] Andrew: even what they look like 

[01:11:42] Katie: look different. Yeah. We've met a few people that like post using heavy filters all the time, and when you meet them in person you're like, Wow, you don't even look like you

Um, but you know, for the most part, I think most people are, are pretty [01:12:00] genuine. Um, and sometimes it's the people I think who have the, the most to hide, who sometimes post the most perfection like that, that spend the most time really cultivating this, this persona and this appearance online that is really very different from who they actually are.

[01:12:20] Andrew: Yeah, I agree. I mean, we can always just speculate who that might be, but it's fun to think about, um, So thank you for listening. Uh, if you have any questions, let us know. 

[01:12:31] Katie: And if you are struggling with pain or a back injury or joint injury, chronic pain, uh, hypermobility, then we have some really great programs.

Limitless. Limitless is geared toward anyone in pain, hypermobility, 

[01:12:48] Andrew: anyone that wants to learn the intricacies of movement. 

[01:12:53] Katie: Yeah, the movement, the coaching, the type of method that we use. We do have a lot of professionals that go through our programs as well, [01:13:00] just to increase their own knowledge and help themselves as coaches, um, or physical therapists, massage 

[01:13:06] Andrew: therapists.

We are planning on getting that, you know, see credits at some point here that we, I, we've been in program building mode for a couple years and I'm like, I need to stop making things cuz it really runs me into the ground every time I make stuff. 

[01:13:21] Katie: But some people have, um, purchased the program, completed it.

We give you, we can give you a sort of. Certificate of completion, and then they're able to go to the governing body and get CEUs from that. They just have to write up a, a little paragraph, I think, about what is in the program. Um, so that could be an option for you as well if you are a professional. But, so we have the Limitless program, then we have the hypermobility program that is geared specifically to anyone who is hyper mobile or has, you know, hyper mobile eds, joint hypermobility syndrome, or if you are professional who works with people who are hyper mobile, which is about 20% of the population, [01:14:00] then you would definitely benefit from that program.

We also have a strength and conditioning program that can be purchased as a bundle with any, with either of our other programs or can be purchased on its own. If you have no pain and you just wanna get jacked, 

[01:14:16] Andrew: kind of follow the workouts that, that I do, essentially that's, that's what it is. That's strength and conditioning 

[01:14:21] Katie: is the program 

[01:14:22] Andrew: for you.

And I've made it so that, um, It can be like, I didn't even do it at the level that I wrote it at, so I always write it for like someone who's a little bit more intense than I would be. You know, I was never like the most intense athlete. And so just kind of thinking about those people in my mind and what they would do to train, I wrote it that way.

And it's scalable anywhere from, I mean, we've got 60, 70 year olds in there doing the program. And then we also have some pretty like, elite athletes that have gone through it. So nice spectrum there for, for anyone. Some people don't even really use much weight and 

[01:14:56] Katie: it works great. Yeah. Yeah. It's very easily modifiable and [01:15:00] appropriate for any level of fitness, whether you are beginner or advanced.

There are videos, um, going over every exercise to going over technique and form. Um, we pay a lot of attention to that in all of our programs. We believe that that's very important. You can follow us on Instagram at Wealth. That's spelled W Health. We are on TikTok at W Health. Underscore our website is www.spreadwealth.com.

Andrew is at the shirtless dude. I am at Cater dot. I think that's all of them. We're on YouTube. What's that? We're on YouTube. Yeah, I know what it is. 

[01:15:44] Andrew: Spread Walk. It's got like 600 subscribers. No, I think it's wealth. I think it's spread. Wealth, I don't know. Could be wealth. I post videos there sometimes.

The same ones we post as the other platforms. We'll be posting this there so you can watch us. And if you have any feedback [01:16:00] for this podcast, this is the first one that I have recorded. Solo and I'll be mastering and producing. It may be totally trash. We'll find out. I did notice that this bar is much higher when I'm talking versus when you're talking, so we'll see how audio is.

Um, I always need to be louder, always be louder. So we'll, we'll see how that is. But thank you very much for listening and I hope that was helpful to you. Bye. Take care everybody. How do I stop it?