I Avoided Back Surgery + Got Pain Free (L5-S1 Disc Herniation) - Limitless Program Recovery

Jun 11

In this powerful episode, Phil shares how he avoided spinal surgery after being told he was a “perfect candidate” for a microdiscectomy at his L5-S1 due to a disc herniation and sciatic nerve entrapment.

After years of recurring back pain, a cervical fusion in his teens, and trying everything from

chiropractic care
epidural injections
phyiscal therapy
cold plunging, saunas
yoga
massage therapy

Phil was desperate, and found himself on the brink of surgery.

As his last shot to a pain-free future WITHOUT undergoing BACK SURGERY, Phil started the Limitless Program.

Within just two weeks of starting, he began feeling dramatic pain relief - and canceled his surgery consult. Within 2 months, he was 90% pain free.

Over the next several months, Phil rebuilt his body through daily Limitless workouts and a complete mindset shift. By the end of the year, he was back on the jiu-jitsu mats, winning gold in competition and moving better than he had in years.

This conversation dives deep into the hard truths of chronic pain, the false promise of “quick fixes,” and the personal responsibility required to heal. Phil’s story is a testament to what’s possible when you stop outsourcing your health and start building true awareness and strength from within.

Tired of living in pain? Join Limitless today risk-free with our 30 day money back guarantee!

Full transcript:

Speaker 2 (00:00)

A lot of people don't want to put in the time and the effort. think it's the same reason why doctors jumped to prescribing Prylosec OTC for heart a heartburn, ⁓ rather than saying, you know, how much gas station food did you eat this morning? Because people don't want to make lifestyle changes. And so I think that what, what you guys are doing and promoting that and trying to make it seem not so scary is what more people need to hear. They need the hard

truths.

Speaker 1 (00:41)

So Phil, thanks for popping on. Thanks for coming to the Wealth Podcast. First question I want to ask, on May 23rd, I think you made a ⁓ decision to do the Limitless program over back surgery. Why did you decide to do that?

Speaker 2 (00:59)

Well, I was at the end of my rope, literally. ⁓ I was ⁓ trying to figure out what direction I could go because my quality of life was not ⁓ what I needed, not what I wanted. It made looking forward to the future not possible. And I was looking for not even just a quick fix, but some sort of fix. And I was...

Going down the road of surgery, because it seems like when you have no other options and you just need to go have somebody tell you what the answer is, the doctors want to do it. And so they had told me, you know, you're a great candidate for the discectomy surgery. You're healthy. You're young. It'll be all right. And then I, looked up. I was actually on a flight back from Europe.

For those of you who have had back issues know that ⁓ flying, sitting in a seat for nine, 10, 11 hours is not really great. Thankfully, it gave me some time to kind of look into some other options. And that's when I came across wealth. And I think I, I had even scheduled with cam a, a call for like immediately as I touched down in the States. ⁓ and then we ended up, I actually ended up getting the text with them.

that day and I was like, man, no sleep. I've been traveling for over 24 hours. Like how about tomorrow morning? I'll be laying on my couch. We'll figure it out. There wasn't anything I could was going to do with the surgeons till the following week anyways, but just the idea that like, I can fix this on my own. So that was empowering. It's what I'd been hearing from all my buddies. Like whatever you do, just don't get cut because it just will never be the same.

And from somebody who had had an emergency, see, see fusion cervical fusion. ⁓ when I was 18, man, I don't want my top and bottom to both be all messed with. So let's just see what happens. I decided to take the leap.

Speaker 1 (03:13)

Yeah, because you said, I remember that you texted me you're like, hey, I'm on the plane right now. you said that, I believe you said the neurosurgeon insisted that you needed a microdyssectomy. Was it, it was the L5S1 if I remember is like a five mil, 5.5 millimeter. And it was something to the extent of your nerve was being obliterated or just some really intense lingo.

Speaker 2 (03:40)

Yeah. And was like, was whatever that what, however it was phrased, was like, well, that sold me. I'm screwed. Like I, don't know what else to do. Um, like clearly this, has to be the only option. And when they, and, and it played off that because two days before I took the flight out to Europe, they were like, they got me in for an emergency after they saw my MRI, they me in for an emergency. Um, what's it, what you would call it.

Speaker 1 (04:10)

It was an epidural, right?

Speaker 2 (04:12)

epidural

injection ⁓ of steroids that was gonna fix it and like at least this will buy you some time it didn't do anything and So then I was like I must be really bad you start playing in your head I Think this is a this is something that we do in life Anytime that we have problems. I think that we decide that our problems are different

I'm going to say what I do. I know that when I have a problem in life, a lot of times I internalize it as my problem is different. It's more unique. It's more severe. Yeah, you might have had something like that, but mine's clearly different. ⁓ And what I've learned is nobody's that special and nobody gets out alive. And so at the end of the day, being able to kind of

Shuck the ego to the side a little bit, listen to some of these stories, and say that there's gotta be a better way. I might not like to hear that because of the work that's going to be involved. ⁓ but the right decision typically is the hardest one. And so here, here we are. ⁓ what's not even been a year.

Speaker 1 (05:34)

Yeah, May 23rd is when you scheduled the call. I think you got back from Europe. We got you signed up for Limitless, maybe two, three days after. ⁓

Speaker 2 (05:43)

was no, it was legit. I, I remember coming home, being on the couch Friday night, talking with you 10 AM on Saturday, my time. And then by three o'clock that afternoon, I was out in my garage, laying on the mats, trying to trying to like, figure it out. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (06:05)

I had do the program. So yeah, two to three days, I guess that, yeah, you signed up immediately then. It was with- Okay. Yeah, there we go. And I think that's obviously, that is a difficult situation. mean, you're being told, hey, you need a surgery. You need a surgery. This is your only option. You are a great candidate for surgery. You're young, you're healthy. What did that mean though? I mean, at the time, Phil, how old were you when they were saying that you needed surgery?

Speaker 2 (06:11)

than 24 hours, yeah.

I was 38 years old. and I think it was also because, you know, I, I'd been dealing with it. Originally it happened, ⁓ in January of last year. So just over a year ago now, ⁓ when I had, I think I might've, kind of herniated it a little bit. Some of the nerve kind of was being pinched. but

I was able to still function, survive, work through. ⁓ I was still able to train a little bit, but then it was knowing what I know now from doing the program. I know exactly why it happened. And a lot of it was, ⁓ the lack of body awareness and hip mobility, trying to push deeper, further more than I needed to not listening to.

what my body was trying to tell me and just be bullheaded and, and work through something. ⁓ cause that's what you gotta do. If it hurts, just push harder. And, ⁓ so I, tweaked it in January and I found that just like in the program with more movement and mobility, like the pain was lessened. So I just chose to just not sit around. ⁓ and then I went to Panama for a

surf and jiu-jitsu trip in February. I came back from that and then, and I took a week off because I was like, wow, yo, let my body heal up from whatever this is. And I got back in the gym a week later, a week and a half later. And I was, I was playing guard, you know, in jiu-jitsu and went to go for a sweep. had my feet on, uh, this, uh, on Skyler's hips.

And I went to grab his heels and push with my legs and it like instant hot poker in my low back. And I just laid there, everything tensed up. And it was at that moment I knew I screwed up. And so then that was when it was like, then I, then I did dry needling. did chiropractic care. I did yoga.

tried to train more. I tried to train less. ⁓ every, I tried, ⁓ painkillers. I mean, which that was a joke. That was like, I, there's nothing there, you know, drinking, not drinking, eating, eating, eating, not clean. Like anything I was looking for dopamine, any sort of serotonin, like, let's just do something to, cause it's constant.

my God, it's constant. It's emasculating. my, my family was sick of me complaining. My, my teams at work were like, man, are you just gonna, you know, wine all the time? ⁓ and so I just felt like a burden to everything in my life. And so that's, I definitely see where it's like when, so when I had that MRI and I had my surgeon read it, she's like,

yeah, do yourself a favor and like just, you know, do this so you can have your life back. But I didn't want my life back in the same way that I had been living it because I knew that I've, I've struggled over my thirties with back issues. And so if I don't figure out, if I don't do the work to figure out what the problem is, I'll just do it again. I'm sick of, I'm sick of living life that way.

Speaker 1 (10:28)

Yeah. So did you feel like for yourself that surgery was going to be a quick fix, it wasn't not even a fix, right? Cause what you're saying was, Hey, there's underlying problems. There are reasons why I probably herniated my disc and why I've been dealing with chronic pain. And, know, you had a cervical fusion two decades before. So you're kind of saying like,

If I do this path of surgery, it's not going to allow me to actually learn and heal and address the problems head on within my body.

Speaker 2 (11:01)

That's exactly, that's exactly what I needed. Honestly, like there's a, there's a lot of lessons that I was needing to learn last year in life. ⁓ both business, spiritually, emotionally, physically. ⁓ but, but at the end of the day, all of those, all of those different scenarios have the same lesson. It's like, you need to understand.

foundationally what your body needs, what you need to be able to put your best foot forward. If you don't know that you got to, you got to put the time and effort in to figure that out. Otherwise there's no doctor, there's no person, there's no anything that's going to be able to help you get that answer for you. If you can't figure it out yourself. So that just means time and you know, having a good coach to be able to say,

⁓ cause at this, at the end of it, nothing, I mean, take this the right way, cam, but nothing was remarkable. Nothing in there was, my gosh. I mean, it was life-changing. that's pretty remarkable, but it wasn't like, there's no, there was no wand to wave. There was no magic move. There was no fat loss pill. It was.

It was time, it was consistency, and it was one tiny step in front of another tiny step. When I started the program, I remember before I made a morning commitment to myself. Uh, I, I told my teams at work, I said, you will not see me till 9am. Uh, I got up. I would either, well, the kids were out of school, so that was helpful, but I would walk for 20 minutes.

20 to 30 minutes, however far that would be when I started it was like the end of the driveway ⁓ And then by the time it was done, I was walking a mile and a half sometimes two miles ⁓ and that was just to get the low back move in and and then I would come in and I would do the program which when I started the program was well

When it started, it was like an hour to do like 12 minutes worth of stuff. But, ⁓ it, my, that workout time would range anywhere from 20 to 50 minutes every day. And during that time I would be filling up my cold plunge tub. And immediately when I would get done with the workout, ⁓ I would go, I felt like I was quenching steel in a hot oil bath, but it was like, I've been.

a little bit of inflammation. My body's a little bit on fire. I'm going to go quell that, take advantage of the mobility that I've gained. it was, so I'd cold plunge every morning and then ⁓ warm shower or get dressed and get on with my day. And after the first four weeks, after the first two weeks, I pushed off one of those surgeon appointments.

Speaker 1 (14:22)

Oh, wow. So you started, think, let's just say May 24th, May 25th, right? Because you hit me up on May 23rd of 2023. Then you had a follow-up appointment with your neurosurgeon two weeks later.

Speaker 2 (14:36)

Yeah, was June 11th. I remember it was June 11th because I also like I kept my appointment with you. I also kept the appointment with the doctor because I was like, ⁓ if this doesn't work, ⁓ I gotta have answers.

Speaker 1 (14:54)

do.

Right. So, I mean, it's safe to say the Limitless program was truly your last shot before surgery.

Speaker 2 (15:00)

⁓ that's that is a hundred percent a true statement.

Speaker 1 (15:04)

Okay, okay.

Speaker 2 (15:06)

What? then in that first couple weeks, I actually did not go to the appointment on the 11th. I was like, I pushed it out and then I rescheduled it to July 5th.

Speaker 1 (15:22)

And what did your neurosurgeon say when you saw him on July 5th?

Speaker 2 (15:28)

He he's like, man, that was when he said, you're the perfect candidate. ⁓ you're you're everything that we would love to see in a patient because we know that it would be a success. But if you're seeing this kind of improvement already, I would stay the course of what you're doing and, and keep at it. ⁓ and, and not do this surgery. If you start going backwards, maybe.

Speaker 1 (15:58)

What do you think is going on? Maybe this is speculation. I guess that's what thinking is, right? You're speculating. What do you think is going on in the neurosurgeon's mind when six weeks before they say, they insist that you need a microdyssectomy to fix your issue, yet you come back six weeks after limitless and then the neurosurgeon says, you don't.

need this surgery anymore. You're improving. Stay on that course. But just six weeks before, I insisted that you need it. Where is that mismatch?

Speaker 2 (16:36)

I think, well, to be a little bit to his credit, he had consulted with the first neurosurgeon that said, you gotta go do this. Just go do this, get your life back. It wasn't his words on that. And that was just a semantics of who my insurance would cover, blah, blah, blah, And this guy, so, but again, like I said, he's like, man, I saw it then, I thought this was gonna be a path.

And you know what I think he was thinking? Wow, a lot of people don't want to put in the time and the effort.

I think it's the same reason why doctors jumped to prescribe in Pylosec OTC for heart, a heartburn, ⁓ rather than saying, you know, how much gas station food did you eat this morning? Because people don't want to make lifestyle changes. ⁓ and so I think that what, what you guys are doing and promoting that and trying to make it seem not so scary, is.

what more people need to hear. They need the hard truths. And I think doctors, mean, I think that sometimes they struggle because I don't know if they just lose their edge over time because nobody wants to hear it. Nobody wants that it's nobody does it anyways. And then I also think that those that become a little bit wiser to it, they don't go see them as much anyway.

So the only people that are exposed to are the people that are like, know, my problems are the worst problems. There's a lot of problems out there, but mine are the biggest. and I think that, I think that that just kind of skews everything.

Speaker 1 (18:32)

Yeah. So on the topic of hard truths, from your experience, as a 38 year old father, business owner, husband, jujitsu athlete, ⁓ avid off-roader, you had done an epidural, you had gone to physical therapy, you had gone to Cairo, you had done pain meds, you had done yoga and you were considering a surgery.

What are three or five hard truths that people need to know if they are in a situation of pain, injury, contemplating surgery, disc herniation, sciatica, back pain? What do they need to know if they actually want to resolve it?

Speaker 2 (19:21)

Number one, you need to be honest with yourself that the work that you thought you put in, didn't put in yet. And that, what I mean by that for me was when I was exasperated with all the options, that was even dramatic. Although, it was, I've done everything. I've done all this stuff. Well, I was, I was going to the chiropractor before I would go to jujitsu or I was going.

to get dry needling done just so that I could try to continue with my lifestyle. The hard truth for me was I thought I committed to something, but I didn't. And then the next thing is that the only way you're gonna get better is with a clear outlined plan and lifestyle adjustment. you don't have to be the one to do it.

It's a hell of a lot cheaper to six, eight, a thousand, 1500 bucks, you know, whatever the program is, is cheaper than recovery. Then, you know, then it trying to hit the insurance deductible or any of that it's cheaper. Just, um, you're, you're what you will learn about yourself is far more valuable than any price that you could pay, um, to be able to have.

somebody coach you through how to work yourself through almost any problem. And I, and if you put your time in, in a program like this, it is, it's teaching you more than just a, some sort of physical reversal. It's teaching you more that if I can pull from this, there's really nothing that I can't do. It truly limitless.

Speaker 1 (21:17)

Did you, going back to that first hard truth that you said, the work that you think you've put in, it's not enough, you haven't, did you inherently know that before starting the Limitless program or was it going through the program and putting in several months of legitimate work that then you realized looking back, my PT and Cairo and yoga and acupuncture, I was going to places, but I wasn't doing anything.

Speaker 2 (21:46)

Yeah, to be honest, it was that moment of clarity when I was sitting down, taking it, truly reflecting on what, cause again, big decision, right? Um, and would I be trying to wave a magic wand with this, with the surgery? Um, and I said, well, what I reflected on what have I done? Well, I've done X and Y, but I, know, but I, but I didn't do Z. So, and then.

And then I thought I said, so if I'm, I'm a busy guy, I travel a lot. ⁓ if I need, if I commit to this, what does that look like? Knowing that like the avenues that I took didn't work. Well, that means that for three months, it is a hundred percent focus on this program and whatever it needs from me, I have to be able to do it. ⁓ and so that meant we have a big trip that I take.

called Epic Wheelies Adventure. drive a bunch of old Jeeps across the country. It's something I came up with some friends and I started in 2016. That means I'd miss out on that opportunity. That means that I miss out on another ⁓ big trip for work in July. It meant that any sort of work trip that I had to do, I wasn't flying. I couldn't be sitting for more than four hours. I need to put everything into this.

Because if I don't do this, everything else is gonna suffer more down the road.

Speaker 1 (23:21)

Yeah. One thing that I hear a lot, know, obviously I took the call with you. I take a lot of calls and I mean, I've taken thousands of calls, which probably doesn't surprise you. Some people will say, like, again, kind of going back to what you're saying too. Yeah. I see all of these successes that you guys have had. see 300 plus Google reviews and I'm reading all of these people who have the same issue as me and they solved it, but like.

Speaker 2 (23:30)

No.

Speaker 1 (23:47)

What about me? Like my issues are more, more special or, but I've tried everything and they'll list out 10 things that they've tried in the same breath, right? Uh, Cairo acupuncture PT, the list out 10, 20 things. And it sounds like you've done a lot when you listed out versus I've done 10 different treatments versus one limitless program. But then you actually look at what you did in those. It's like,

Yeah, maybe you spent a lot of time and money going to a bunch of massages and you got in the car and you got adjusted and maybe you went to PT eight sessions or 12 sessions or 20 sessions, but it wasn't enough. ⁓

Speaker 2 (24:27)

that

note, dude, like, but, you know what you didn't do? You person, me, all I did was lay on a table. I, know, and then it was, all right, well then did I, here's some moves to do. Did I consistently do them? I, the, what has to happen is you need to put the work in. Nobody could do that for you. And, and I think that that's where.

That's where people go, well, yeah, I know, but like this surgeon can just fix it.

Speaker 1 (24:59)

me.

Obviously there are cases in which surgery is necessary, disclaimer, you know, and then there are a lot of situations when people are being told they need surgery and they truly do not. And they just think that they can't start improving like, oh, well, the surgery is going to be my reset. I'm like, there are plenty of surgeries where the surgery is not a reset. You are now in an even tougher situation than you were beforehand.

And you still got to do the rehab, you know? So everyone has to kind of figure that out for themselves. yeah, I mean, it can be tough, but I'm grateful that you had that moment of clarity and kind of realized that for you and your situation, even though the doctor was insisting that you needed it, you know, that was kind of you thinking that that was a magic wand. That's, that is tough. You know, when I guess a, a doctor is insisting you need this thing, ⁓

Where

Speaker 2 (25:55)

actually had a good combat to that. When I brought that to you and I had asked you, um, I mean, that is what they think. And it was like, well, you're going to need to rehab anyways. You're going to need to do it. If you do the program now and it doesn't work, you're going to be in a better spot for surgery. And it was like, well, I can't argue with that logic that like, and

As much as in the moment, I was like, man, I don't know this guy and he's a pretty good salesman. That's a hell of a line. it was like, I can't argue with that. And so when I would go back and forth and I brought that to my wife, I was like, Heather, I want to try this. Like, do I have your support? ⁓ because I think that, I mean, she, she had been ready to throw me out on my ear several times, you know, get off the couch. just, you know, she never really said I was lazy, but

You could tell that it wears on loved ones. And so it was, ⁓ once I kind of took that logic and ran with it, ⁓ it just, that was kind of the, the North star to stick to.

Speaker 1 (27:07)

Yeah, you you're again, not the first nor the last person who has a surgery scheduled, right? And, you know, fortunately for you, Phil, we did have that timeline in which you said, and I obviously, I cannot make these decisions for people. I'm never going to tell someone you need to do our program over surgery. We got to kind of walk you through that, right? But for you, I think the way that the timeline worked out, it was a fortunate situation in which surgery was not tomorrow. The doctor was not saying,

Though the neuro was saying you needed surgery, the surgery was not set out for the next day and they were not discouraging you from movement. Right? So when you have those two paired up, if the appointment is down at a future date and you are clear for movement, getting in that prehab before a surgery and being stronger beforehand, like that's only going to be better. That means you're going to go into the surgery stronger and come out stronger in most realms. Right?

⁓ or you get the other side of it, which is like, wow, you don't even need the surgery. So it really is a win-win if they're not saying like, surgery is here. If you move a limb at all, you're going to get paralyzed. Then sure. That's a different issue. But if, if you're looking at, have this appointment set, I am free to do rehab beforehand. You might as well give it a go. Like Phil did, you know, there we go. So go into that though. I do want to touch on that.

you know, what it felt like to be a burden to your wife, maybe kids, you know, business owner. What was that stage of your life like?

Speaker 2 (28:43)

⁓ was awfully depressing. ⁓ I felt like. Honestly, it put me in a tailspin, and mentally, ⁓

Yeah, just thinking back, I get chills. ⁓

It was, it's really hard for the guy who feels like he needs to have all the answers to not have all the answers and then feel like instead of bringing solutions, always bringing his problems. and, and not feeling like everything that comes out of my mouth is a complaint. ⁓ and then I got in my head about all that. And then that created a lot of anxiety for how, how I was acting around everybody. And am I driving people away?

Am I ruining relationships? and like that spiraled me into a whole different place. ⁓ so the, business was tough, but I've got a great team around here. ⁓ that, you know, kind of respected what I needed and got the jobs done. ⁓ I did a lot of conducting business from the couch. ⁓

And, and that was, ⁓ again, understandable. And once things started to turn around, ⁓ you know, lot of the, a lot of that mojo came back at the shop. ⁓ and then, you know, at home, honestly, it's, it, it showed plenty of other holes and things that I thought were solid. ⁓ and I'm not.

I'm not ready to go into that too much right now, but ⁓ it created a little bit more of the same situation that what you've been trying to do to make things work, unless you truly understand the foundations of why you are doing what you're doing and doing it right. Nothing, nothing.

Nothing that you build on top of that is going to be as strong as you hope.

Speaker 1 (31:07)

And it's so interesting that you say that. think all of our members who go through the program successfully, they come in to solve a legitimate kind of pain problem point in their life. And you're using the word foundation, right? It's like, okay, I'm going through the medical system and we're not looking at the foundation. We're just looking at symptom relief, symptom management, throw pills, throw surgeries, throw adjustments, throw dry kneeling, throw massage, throw some crappy PT at it.

rather than truly looking at the foundation. The foundation, when you go in and you work on a house and the foundation's off, it can be an expensive thing to go ahead and fix, skyrocket on that. Or rather than fixing the foundation, maybe like, ooh, I don't really have that money to spend right now on this home remodel. What if I just go fix up my kitchen and my bathroom a little bit? Like that might be good.

sure that might work for a little bit and then you're going to come back to the same problem and eventually it all cracks, it falls apart. It's the same thing, but it's so cool to see people go through the proxy of I fixed my back pain, I fixed my shoulder, I fixed my hip, I fixed this kind chronic pain because I took three months to do 20 to 50 minutes a day of the program or at least a few times a week. And I realized like my joint health, my mobility, my strength, my body awareness,

Foundationally speaking, I was not doing the things I wanted to do. I was doing the things that I, or I was not doing the things I needed to. I was doing the things I wanted to do rather than spend time on hip mobility and some of the biomechanical stuff. I'm just going to go to the chiropractor and then go to jujitsu and roll around ⁓ with my guys because that's way more fun. works until you get hurt and then you have to address it or you're just going to be in a bigger hole. Right. And same thing there. You know, you're sitting on the couch in pain.

It's making you think about the relationship that I'm sure you have with your wife, with your coworkers, with your kids, who you are as a dad. You got nothing really to do with time to probably reflect on the couch, ⁓ maybe potentially feeling like a piece of crap, not feeling good. But I think that can be really challenging in a good way. If you're like, ⁓ I need to change a lot of different aspects of my life. And I felt like that too, Phil. mean, I was when I had sciatica.

I was so irritable. mean, I was just 21, but I was not speaking nicely to people around me or my mom. I remember times where I blew up on her. I think I was still living at home or it was during the summer and just like swearing at her and getting mad and irritable. And it's like, that's not who I want to be, but I was in so much pain and I couldn't solve it that I was just taking out another. So I, I get that aspect.

Speaker 2 (33:54)

It's a fine excuse, but it doesn't, like I was.

same thing. And it's like, man, I was making an excuse for being shitty to people ⁓ because my back hurt, even though was my own doing my own problem. But, you know, I'm trying to better myself by being healthier. So like some, is the collateral damage. And I've been doing stuff like that over injuries for a long time. And again, it's like, that's not who I am in my core. Those aren't my core values. That's not the integrity.

that I choose to try to walk with. and it, it was, it's a, it's a, it's a massive shakedown to say, ⁓ you know, and this is, know, maybe you've heard it or not, but like life will just keep giving you lessons. And if you don't learn them, it'll just keep giving it to you. And that's exactly how I felt with my back. ⁓ but then that is what opened my eyes to wait a minute. It's not just my back.

This is my relationship as a husband. This is my relationship as a dad. This is my relationship as a good friend. This is my relationship. You know, how can I, what am I missing? How can I apply this to that? Because yeah, like you said, between cold plunges and sitting in the sauna and going for walks, you got a lot of time to contemplate. ⁓ and so, ⁓ I, anybody who's thinking about this program know that the journey that you're going to embark on is a lot more than just.

you know, a quick fix for some low back pain. You're going to help find out who you are and what you're made of.

Speaker 1 (35:37)

Yeah, I think, you know, I understand that. And I think there's kind of this grace period that you get when you're in chronic pain or you have an injury in which you're, you're irritable, you're upset. You say things you don't want to, maybe your wife or your partner, your parents or your kids. And then it's like, dad or, you know, dad or Phil or Cam or our members. Well, their back hurts. So like, let's just kind of give them some grace.

But then you kind of, start to run out of runway on that. And it's like, Hey, Phil, I understand your back hurts. I don't understand. Cause no one understands that until you deal with it. And that's conversely the other difficult part. You're probably like, Hey, you don't understand what I'm going through. Right. And I think that's valid and fair, but also to flip it back to the other perspective, like

People don't want to deal with crappy attitudes, even from loved ones forever, even if they know that they're going through a tough time. It is a tough situation to be in for both parts. I totally get that. But what I have found, culturally speaking, for subsect of people who do not want to take responsibility with their health, they want to victim, you know, they want to be the victim. They want to blame. They want to blame everyone else. They want to sulk in their own pain. Look, I've been there.

I felt bad and sorry for myself temporarily with sciatica, but after a little bit of time, you need to run out of that runway of feeling bad for yourself. Cause if that's all you ever do, you're just going to keep feeling bad for yourself and you're going to push everyone else away from you. And you're going to become unrecognizable in the worst possible way in the mirror, because you're just going to, you're just going to be grasping for that old person that was nice, that enjoyed life, that treated other people well. And you're just going to get in this horrible circle. So it's like,

You have a little bit of time and grace in which dealing with pain, like be nice to yourself, be kind to yourself, but don't confuse that self love and care of ⁓ acceptance for pain for just not allowing yourself to get better and take true responsibility and ask yourself in the mirror, like, am I really doing what I need to do or am I just paying people to fix my problems?

Speaker 2 (37:48)

100%. I could not agree with any ⁓ total accountability in any aspect of your life. And yeah, I just, man, there was something else I was going to say and I don't remember what it was, but that was like, that was, summed it up very eloquently.

Speaker 1 (38:07)

Well, it's, ⁓ I've had the opportunity to keep telling people that and I have the opportunity to keep hearing the same story. And so it's just such an interesting position to be in now because. You know, at the time, seven years ago, I was like, my gosh, why, why is this happening to me, to me? Like I'm so sad. This is happening to me. Like I should be in a different stage of my life. And now I just look back on it and I truly believe it's been the best thing.

The biggest blessing in my life. This injury happened for me. I'm so grateful. came across Andrew ⁓ enrolled in his program, bought it. actually my mom bought it at that time and I followed it. I was not going to make any excuses. And here I am. haven't had sad back pain for years. I get to share this story, but I think that's another big thing. Well, limitless, the hypermobility program. We're not going to be able to help everyone out because I think there are a lot of people out there who are not ready to.

to kind of put in that work and like just want to be like, my problems are worse than anyone else's and there's nothing I can do. But for people who are listening, who really want to make a change, even though it's difficult, ⁓ you know, I think the pain and injury, there can be some incredible things that you learn through this and it can be an overall net positive and you can persevere through that. You know, the human body is not made of glass. It's not like you drop a glass bowl and it breaks and it can never come back. Like,

You know, we can learn things, we can heal as well. So, but you know, lot of what we're talking about too is mindset as well. And that can be difficult for people as well.

Speaker 2 (39:42)

Well, it just gets hard when you, when it, feels like all the pressures of the world are on you from all of these different aspects. But what I was going to say to it, it's at some point that grace that you were talking about that runs out with everybody. ⁓ it should run out with from yourself at the same time, because it's, ⁓ I mean, it, it really becomes no different than like enabling, ⁓ whether it's enabling an addict, like, well, you know, there's

They had a hard day at work. So that's why they got to have a six pack of beer or whatever it is. It's like, isn't anything like that does not go to a positive place. Um, and it's like, you can make so many analogies for it, but at the end of the day, yeah, just being able to the, the not being a victim, um, and knowing that life's happening for you, not to you.

⁓ is, is I think the biggest thing, ⁓ I think that the, the other thing that the, like the wealth program taught me, you know, we've talked a few times after Kim about, you know, ⁓ maybe doing the strength program and, ⁓ what, what it's allowed me to do though. I have not done those other programs and what the body awareness that I now have.

for training as a whole is remarkable. I am able to create my own splits. This was almost like the one piece of the puzzle that I didn't have before. I knew how to do Olympic lifts. I mean, obviously, just regular strength training. I knew about high intensity. I knew about some mobility. I didn't really know shit, actually, before the program. Thought I did. That's yoga, right?

And you should like sprinkle that in. ⁓ but after this program, it was like a missing piece. So I was truly able to structure things. like doing, I love doing jujitsu. I love doing, going mountain biking and, I enjoy running. I enjoy running. I had to, you know, convince myself of that one, but.

Speaker 1 (42:05)

That's

what it sounded like. You didn't sound too convinced.

Speaker 2 (42:09)

But I do, I like being able to move and run. ⁓ but mountain biking, mountain biking, jiu-jitsu for me, ⁓ and running to a point, and this is where that hesitation came in. They don't necessarily feel like exercise anymore. ⁓ they, they feel like things that I just enjoy doing, but to support those things, I know that I need, ⁓ I need to be able to round out my training with strength conditioning and, and mobility and, ⁓

I found that actually there's a hot yoga class that is, it's called inferno Pilates. They do it like really hot, but it's a Pilates based class that, most of the movements in there are exactly, or very similar to, ⁓ like the fourth to sixth, ⁓ low back and legs, ⁓ movement.

class or ⁓ modules from the Limitless program. And, but the difference is I know how to act in that class. Now that I've done the program before, I would just try to keep up with the instructor or whatever she was calling out or whatever. And it, it's a recipe for disaster. Whereas now knowing how these different movements and hip bridges and, and hip rotations, how they

how they interact with my body and how they make me feel. I slow it down. I'll speed it up. I'll spend more time working on X, Y, or Z. And I hit up two of those a week. If I'm doing like a big training, keeps in addition to my hip switches and, ⁓ you know, hip hinges and hip hikes that I still do now, ⁓ as just a part of every warmup. I know that if I need a little bit more, I'll

I know how to get it now and I know what things I can go for instead of having to, well, and I also know if I'm traveling, I have my limitless app still on my phone and it's like, Oh, you know what? I'm going to, I'm going to do this. And a lot of times now a full workout is a warmup. Um, and that's fine with me. Sometimes I will just do that. If I'm feeling lazy, it's like, Oh, I've just, but I want to do something. I'll just pick one at random.

But it's amazing how it's been able to kind of fit into my schedules.

Speaker 1 (44:41)

The thing about body awareness, it feels like an abstract concept if you haven't experienced it. And I just think about you're in this like meat suit and you're just moving around. I felt like I knew how to, because I swam, I played water polo, then I got into bodybuilding and CrossFit and whatever. And I was like, well, I'm strong.

beating most of these people in the workout classes and I'm a really good athlete and I can do 20 pull-ups unbroken and this and that. Oh, I know what I'm doing and I can back squat 300 plus pounds and snatch, you know, close to 200, whatever. Oh, I know how to move. And looking back and going through the program where you spend time working on these small things, trying to get specific joints and muscles to activate and then actually appreciating not it being hard, let's just say,

Like it's not going to cause a muscular fatigue, you know, pump or you're not going to be sweating a ton and sucking, know, sucking air and feeling the blood in your, in your face. Like it's not hard in that sense in the program. What's hard is looking at what seems to be an easy move and then not doing it. Let's just say properly or efficiently, and then appreciating the fact that you're not doing it as it could be done and that you should get better at that.

That's where there's kind of a mismatch, I think, for people. A lot of people I don't think would appreciate the Limitless program unless they had pain because they're kind of forced to slow down and look at it. how would you even describe what body awareness is, what you have now versus what you did not have?

Speaker 2 (46:23)

did

not have it. I did not have it. I tell people that basically from my thoracic to my kneecaps were just paint sticks. Nothing moved. I know that my low back came from a lack of low back and spinal mobility. That's all it was. Blame it on a long, I'm 6'3", I got long legs and long arms and we don't lift things correctly or.

Sure, all of that probably paid apart, but it was because I stopped moving like a kid ⁓ at some point in my life and thought I didn't need to do that anymore. ⁓ I didn't, I don't need to squat down all the way to pick something up. Like I just cannot believe how everything I do now, when I down to picking up a paper clip off the floor is different because of the program.

because the things that I know, I didn't even know I had muscles in my butt. I didn't know, like, I thought I, you know, to engage your glutes now is just like, holy shit, I got some power.

Speaker 1 (47:33)

I think that's one thing too that's really cool about our programs is, you know, we have the anatomy artist and she comes out and she's painted all of the different muscle groups and areas so that like when Katie and Andrew had the videos in the program, you're getting, you know, it's not like you're getting your PhD in anatomy, but you're seeing anatomy for the first time. mean, I was studying engineering in college. I had, I love fitness, but I didn't know what

the bones were called and what the joints were called and what the muscles were called and how they were oriented and how they're supposed to move. So that was the first time I've learned that. And I would venture to say when people join the Limitless program, that is probably the first time most of them learn about the anatomy of the body. And it's not so much where, like, if you don't have that background, you can't understand it. But I think there is this empowering sense of like, wow, okay. I now know.

that this is called this and this is how this thing moves and I have the power to control it. And for the time being, if it's not moving well or if it's snapping or cracking or in pain, here are things that I can do to mentally connect to it and physically start to build strength, ⁓ know, open up range of motion within that joint, whatever. And then you start to be like, my problems within my body, predominantly I am responsible for and I have the power to change.

And that feels really good for people who want that, you know, which I think a lot of people, think a lot of people still want to outsource their problems. You can go live in fairy tale land, you know, that's not going to work. But I think a lot of people would be like, Whoa, okay. I have a lot of pain right now, but this is the first time that I actually feel like I have agency over how I feel in the future. This is an awesome thing.

Speaker 2 (49:15)

Yeah. It's so empowering to remind yourself that your life is your choice. Your body is your choice. When, when you make those, those connections, like you were saying, the illustrations to your body, it's like, okay, well, this is what it's targeting instead of like, I don't know, like chest day, there's probably muscles in there. We're going to do chest things. ⁓ this like, Hey, we're engaging this so that down the road, we can do this so that we can free up that.

And it's like, even, I remember even like the 360 breathing with a towel still to this day, whenever, even when it tells me to take a deep breath, I was going in for an insurance, uh, life insurance policy checkup. they're, you know, they put this stuff scope on your lungs, take a deep breath. I still like picture myself holding a towel around my chest.

Speaker 1 (49:54)

doctor.

Speaker 2 (50:11)

and expanding all throughout my entire chest cavity, front and back. ⁓ it's just little things like that, that, that had nothing to do with, ⁓ disc herniation, but it gave me awareness of my body to understand what I'm trying to do when, when, when a task as simple as breathing is presented.

Speaker 1 (50:32)

Right. Yeah, there's so many awesome skills. I mean, I love movement. I love working out. I love bodybuilding and cardio. There are things that I love doing. And then there are things that I know I need to kind of enjoy and love to do so that I can do those things. And that's the same thing. As you were talking about breathing, was just, Matt, I was feeling as a guy, he's going to start talking about 360 breathing. I'm feeling it open up the ribs on the backside and the front side. Those are all things that no one is going to learn.

unless they really care about it or are in pain and ready to do it. So that's really where I think pain can be a beautiful thing. It forces you or might force you to stop doing the things that you currently think you love so that you can slow down, focus on rebuilding the foundation and then work up from there. ⁓ Share whatever you want. don't know what specifically you're alluding to with your marriage. You don't need to share any of that, but what are some of the things that...

maybe your wife has seen or like from her perspective, or maybe your kids like Phil before versus Phil after.

Speaker 2 (51:36)

Yeah, I think and it's kind of a little bit of everybody and. Definitely training partners to like they just. I've always been the kind of guy to have some grit and determination to just get a job done.

There's a lot more grace in my life after this program ⁓ and after learning this that ⁓ because I used to look at a lot of things and and a lot of things with other people. ⁓ Sorry. And I used to think that if you couldn't get the job done, it was because you. Were poorly equipped. ⁓

I'm not saying a failure. mean, I guess I didn't, but, ⁓ you just weren't good enough to get the job done. And I definitely believe that. I tried really hard not to judge people based on that, but that was the mindset that my mind was going. ⁓ when I had nothing to do but surrender to, ⁓ myself and this program and just let the chips fall where they may. ⁓ I, I was able to have.

a lot more grace for others and realize that the reason, even though I chose to take responsibility for my things, sometimes that's really hard for others to do. ⁓ And I think that that might've reflected, ⁓ it's reflected in the teams. There was a lot of, from family and friends, like, my gosh, that was so hard. You did such a great job. ⁓

But I think it's all the unspoken things that happened from all of this that, ⁓ you know, the whole actions speak louder than words. I think that there's a, there's a trust from a lot of, from those that I work with closely that know that when things get hard, doesn't, that doesn't mean that it's over. doesn't mean, but it, but it does mean that you might have to roll your sleeves up and get to work. So.

I don't know. I don't know if that quite answers the question, but life's still a spinning top for me right now. But this is a piece of it that has given me a lot of clarity and I feel really secure in.

Speaker 1 (54:03)

That's awesome. Can you kind of walk through your best recollection? Cause I know you started, ⁓ 10, nine months ago, right? Eight, nine months ago, from what I remember when you, you know, first shared your story on Instagram, you were saying like, Hey, within a week I made pretty good improvements. And yeah, do you remember that timeline?

Speaker 2 (54:23)

So I remember, ⁓ it was, ⁓ I had an event, sorry, I'm going to work through this a little bit with you, but, ⁓ I had an event in Milwaukee, Wisconsin, the end of June. That was kind of like, I think it was like four weeks in to the program. and the hesitation I always had with traveling was it's going to screw my routine up. If I'm at home, I can.

I can protect my routine. ⁓ and so I had to go to Milwaukee to, ⁓ do an event, a podcast event with Milwaukee tool. It's like, can't miss that. It was a really great opportunity. ⁓ and so that was like the first time that I broke routine a little bit, but I still got up. I did a two and half by that by four weeks in, I was doing two and a half mile walks to start my day. So.

Those, those either remember like I couldn't make it to my mailbox. So, I would say that when in the first week I was, things were starting to open up and I could push a little further, but that was also trying to be wise to not push too far. I've dieted. Everything was a big thing that I was really focusing on to no alcohol, no nothing. Granted, when I got to Milwaukee, a lot of that went out the window for one night. ⁓ but.

balance a little bit, right? ⁓ that's my rationale. And then, ⁓ I want to say at six weeks, I can't remember cam if it was, if I was able to jog or mountain bike first. And I think that it was, I think it was road cycling. I was able to do first and that was between six and eight weeks. ⁓ so mid July, I, I remember like, I'm going to just try this thing.

And I was able to ride the bike and that felt very comfortable, but it was stepping off, unclipping and getting off. It was like, okay, I'm not quite ready. So then I kept doing things for another week and then I tried it again and it was like, I was able to straddle the bike and then, ⁓ and then go. And then, ⁓ and then after that, trying to remember when I mountain biked first, I didn't mountain bike. I didn't mountain bike till September.

Because I was a little bit, I was a little bit nervous, too jarring, not, not enough, ⁓ control over everything. So then, so I just, started incorporating road cycling, ⁓ as often as I could into it. And then the end of August. So after the, the first eight weeks, of course I did the program twice back to back, ⁓ because I was really curious to see what it would do.

what I saw from week one to week eight, even though it might not look good now, it was like insane the amount of results. So I was like, well, let's double that. And we did. and because I think also, and I was able to start going back to the jujitsu gym in July, as a, ⁓ as a coach for the kids class, I wasn't doing much, but I was able to at least be in that environment with really supportive friends. And

And then in August I was able to run and that's when I actually realized that I liked running. As I, was like, I actually, I'm, I'm, I'm not taking it for granted anymore. I'm grateful that I can put one foot in front of the other. Cause it did not feel like that was ever going to happen again.

Speaker 1 (58:09)

Yeah, that's what people don't realize has been the biggest blessing for me is like, go and enjoy stuff so much. And it's been so long that I've had sciatica where like, I know right now, the ability for me to go out and walk, like I'm not as grateful to go out and walk probably right now as I was like a year after my injury, because it's just like, this is normal. I should be able to do that. And yes, you should be able to, but

that there's that really awesome aspect when you have your health back, you're like, my gosh, like, I just love like, I can sit, I can have a meal with my family. Like, pain is not on my mind. This is awesome.

Speaker 2 (58:50)

It is wild. you take a lot less for granted. I even find that like, if I squat down to pick something up and my hips feel tight or ⁓ it's like, I almost smile because I'm like an opportunity, you know, I know that and it's pointing out the things that I still need to do. But now I know how to do them. Whereas before it was like, don't do that. That hurts. I stay away from it.

Speaker 1 (59:18)

Right. avoid the problem. Yeah. Just avoid the problem. Avoid the tight muscle group. Avoid the tight joint. Avoid the area that hurts. Because that's what we learn. think a lot of, in part, potentially, if we just, you know, if you, if you feel like these pain pills are what's going to kind of fix my pain, it's just kind of like pain is the problem. I need to suppress the problem rather than ask why I have it. Right. So I think we do learn a lot of

avoidance tactics and fear around movement and pain. And that's also, you know, one big part of what we try to teach within the program is like, hey, we kind of want pain to be a very positive guide and let it guide you in a positive way, not let it dictate your life. But, you know, of course that's easier said than done and does take some work as well.

Speaker 2 (1:00:10)

Yeah, absolutely.

Speaker 1 (1:00:13)

Well, Phil, so happy for you. did you, for my recollection, I mean, you were almost pain free within the first time around. What did you learn from the second time around or just, you know, how was the second time going through the program different than the first?

Speaker 2 (1:00:28)

It was, it was a little harder to finish to be honest, cause I was feeling better and I was like, I want to get back to doing everything. But I still skated the course. It took me a little bit longer to finish than eight weeks because of that. ⁓ but.

Cause then, and I'm going to be real honest, like I'm, I'm not 100 % pain free. ⁓ I, if I bend over to touch my toes early in the morning, I feel that I feel that it's not sciatica. Cause I know what that is. I can feel my sciatic nerve. Sure. ⁓ it's not the same. ⁓ and so

Speaker 1 (1:01:01)

Again.

Speaker 2 (1:01:10)

And I know that I know again, I know how to push it further. know how to warm it up. know how to not shock it into an existence. ⁓ And I'm choosing to be a little bit more well-rounded with my ⁓ with what I do. So what I'm why I say it like that is I know that that I could be better. And if I focused solely on it, I will be in an even better position, but I truly am in a spot that I can.

focus on all of these aspects that give me, ⁓ that reduced my stress, that allow me to feel physically active and full as a, as a 39 year old dude. ⁓ that I, that I, I'm probably not going to go right back and just say, all right, well, I better do the limitless program solely for another eight weeks. But I, I got back on the jujitsu match end of September. ⁓

I started training for competitions again in October. I did my first competition in December, ⁓ December 9th. And I ran through my, ⁓ my bracket took gold and

Speaker 1 (1:02:26)

Wow, that's awesome. Congrats.

Speaker 2 (1:02:28)

Yeah, man, and then that that kind of inspired me. To sign up for ⁓ more competition, so I did a competition last week. That's where this black eye came from. ⁓

Speaker 1 (1:02:40)

was wondering what was going on there. ⁓

Speaker 2 (1:02:43)

Yeah.

Yeah. No, I know I mentioned the marriage. There's some stuff going on. Don't worry, everybody. I am safe. But, ⁓ and I took gold last weekend. ⁓ I've got my kids and I are both competing next weekend in Milwaukee, Wisconsin. ⁓ and then there's two more competitions in April. So once I kind of get through this spring competition season, I'll probably pull back.

do a little bit more biking. ⁓ there's a, a big competition later this fall in Vegas that I'm I'll probably gear up for, but I'm going to shift some of my focus, make sure that I'm balancing my life and I'm putting attention into kind of all of the things that need it. instead of leaning, leaning too much into one thing.

Speaker 1 (1:03:34)

Yeah, Phil. What belt are you in Jiu Jitsu?

Speaker 2 (1:03:38)

I'm a blue belt. I've been doing it for about four years. And it's quite a journey.

Speaker 1 (1:03:45)

Okay, does what was the order ago?

Speaker 2 (1:03:49)

white, blue, purple, brown, black.

Speaker 1 (1:03:53)

All right. There we go. Four years is a, that's a good amount of time. Overarching. mean, have you noticed, have you gotten better at jujitsu since, or are you just smarter with it? what does that look like?

Speaker 2 (1:04:08)

I mean, I've gotten better because I put time on the mat, but the body awareness, I am not an explosive jujitsu practitioner. am like, I'm like, man, I don't know. I don't want to spend that much energy. So I'm just going to take my opportunities when I can. ⁓ I, you know, bridging is a big thing. I'm super cautious when it comes to bridging because you can put a lot of pressure on your low back. ⁓ but

Speaker 1 (1:04:35)

What about that? What about that next surgery that you've had? So you had a fusion when you were younger in this.

Speaker 2 (1:04:41)

18343, four and five are all fused together from a injury rest being an idiot with a buddy of mine. I fell down. My head went through a truck window. Yeah. I didn't know it was broke for two weeks. I just kind of ignored it. And you made that comment about the surgeon didn't rush you into a surgery. ⁓ you know, if you move, you're going to die. Well, that was that when I went in for my ⁓ X-ray at 18.

They were like, we're scheduling surgery right now. Don't breathe wrong. It'd be a quadriplegic.

Speaker 1 (1:05:17)

Very

different story, right? We were talking about the surgery before, just if anyone's hearing that. Disclaimer, there are surgeries like that that you should go and get, right? Okay, so that was a true emergency surgery. Wow.

Speaker 2 (1:05:33)

Yes. ⁓

And the one that read my, the surgeon that read the MRI, ⁓ interestingly enough for my low back was the same surgeon that did my neck fusion. And so I do have trust for them. do respect them. Right. And, know, but, but here's the difference. They trusted me when I said, I tried absolutely everything and I gave it my all.

I don't know what to do. And that was the statement that they heard from me. They trusted me. They believed me. And they said, well, then this is your only option. And from that statement in that moment of clarity, outside the pain, I was able to say, is that true? Did I truly do everything I could or is, or did life offer me an option with the wealth program to say, truly give it one last shot of an honest go.

before you go into surgery.

Speaker 1 (1:06:36)

That's cool. That's yeah, really paints the picture too, where it is important to be having doctors or surgeons that are, you know, they're kind of fluid within the goals and not unless it's truly needed in that emergency situation. Like, Hey Phil, I want to help you out. I think I can help you out the surgery. If your goal is not to do surgery, but it sounds like you've done everything else. Like I don't know what else as a surgeon to offer you. So of course this is what I'm going to offer you. That's an interesting.

Interesting piece there.

Speaker 2 (1:07:08)

Well, I think it's important because it's, we're not trying to, if we're not trying to victimize ourselves, we can't villainize anybody else because that you can't have one without the other. And I don't think that there's any business villainizing surgeons for trying to just get you in and cut you up and fix that. Because I do believe, and that's why I brought it up. I believe that it still starts with the patient.

and how the patient presents their problems to that surgeon. And a surgeon's gonna just usually be pretty pragmatic with you. It just is what it is.

Speaker 1 (1:07:49)

That was kind of something that I thought about along my journey as well. I think a lot of times people will... ⁓ It's not my fault or it's so-and-so's fault. And it's like, even if that's the case, something that I felt rang true in my recovery was like, it might not be your fault, but it's your responsibility or it's your fault and it's your responsibility. the end of the day, whether or not it's your fault or not, or someone else's,

It doesn't really matter. It's your responsibility. And I had to acknowledge that as well. When I went and saw a chiropractor, he was supposed to be this really good chiropractor. And frankly, I had a really, I would say more negative situation with the person in the sense that I don't know if he was just trying to be mean and be like, your life's over, but that's how I took it. He pretty much told me there was nothing I can do. And I was like, okay, I could blame.

you know, this guy and like, my life is a wreck because he said this and I never did anything, but I was like, all right, that's just one person's opinion. ⁓ I'm not going to do everything in the future just to prove this one guy wrong. Like it's just, I'm gonna take it with a grain of salt and move forward from it. And I do agree with you. think there probably is a lot of blame on like chiropractor, like the chiropractor.

mess. I'll hear this all the time. The chiropractor messed me up. went and got an adjustment. I was never the same. It's like, dude, like, or I picked this thing up and my back's never been the same. I lifted this weight one time and you know, my shoulder burst. Dude, that was the straw that broke the camel's back. Like you weren't in a 100 mile an hour car crash. You didn't fall off a 75 foot cliff. Like

I recognize that before that incident, you felt okay, or at least you're telling me you did. And then after you didn't, but like your body is a culmination of everything that's happened. That was one little event. It doesn't really do you any good to put that much meaning on one word said, one event said you have to zoom out and be like, what do I need to fix holistically with my lifestyle? Yes, that's more to wrap your head around, but that's where the answers lie.

Speaker 2 (1:10:06)

Right. Sorry. Sorry for the truth, but that's the truth, man. Mic drop.

Speaker 1 (1:10:08)

Sorry.

Hey Phil, thanks for coming on and dropping some truth. appreciate you. Any last words?

Speaker 2 (1:10:19)

No, man, I appreciate you guys having me around. And I'd love to see what the future holds. And I'm sure we'll keep running the same circles. So I appreciate you, ⁓

Speaker 1 (1:10:30)

you

Podcast Transcript

Luke S (00:00)

Had a lot of back pain

I'm sitting all day, eight hours a day for

And it was to the point where I wanted to call like a surgeon.

I finally got an MRI,

showed an L5S1 disc

it particularly affected my

It was miserable.

I just needed something

held me

outlined exactly what to do, showed me how to do

I found this online.

just saw, you know, the program started looking into

I would wake

play with my son, drink the coffee, and do the workouts, and it's at your own

A lot of these exercises I had never even heard

then by

six, seven, eight, I was

I'm feeling a lot better.

if taken slowly the program is more of a crescendo

intense

So I have a two year old son and then have number two here in a couple weeks coming.

the first year of his life,

know, I'd find myself in this chair, this rocking chair,

him just like, I need to put him down because my back hurts,

forward

second year of his life,

I'm good, I can sit in this chair,

know, with pretty much pain

I would just say if you're thinking about it, do it. If you're not thinking about it, you should be.

Cam (01:07)

Before we get started on this conversation, I want to welcome you to the wealth podcast where I interview some of our members who take control of their health and overcome and eliminate years of chronic pain and injury. Now today we'll hear a little bit about how Luke healed an L five S one disc herniation back pain is almost entirely pain free in just a matter of a few months. Now, if you are struggling with back hip, shoulder or neck pain, use code pain free in all caps, no spaces.

on any of our programs to take a hundred dollars off and start taking your life back to that. Now let's jump

Cam (01:41)

Yeah, Luke. So you started in November 15th for the Limitless program with Back Pain, I believe some diss stuff. So why don't you take me through why you even got started then?

Luke S (01:50)

Yeah,

sure. So back pain really goes back further than that. Had a lot of back pain in high school and early college from basketball, soccer, running track, lifting weights, particularly deadlifting and squatting used to really bother my low back, probably just not flexible enough, I think, particularly my hips and my low back. But in any case, it would always bother me. And then it became more of a chronic pain.

end of high school, early college. And like we were texting about and we talked about, um, had some luck with the extensions, the McKinsey method, did it for like two weeks and no back pain anymore. It was amazing. Um, and then fast forward. Yeah, go ahead.

Cam (02:32)

And yeah,

what what age was that when that

Luke S (02:36)

20 is probably why it worked. You know, just I'm 29. Yeah.

Cam (02:40)

Okay, and how old are you right now? Okay, so about

a decade ago while dealing with back pain, you did the McKenzie method and that was very helpful for a little.

Luke S (02:50)

Super helpful,

super helpful. And then, know, fast forward to when I was like 27, 28, got back into squatting. I decided, you know what, I'm going to give it another try. Or I had avoided it for the most part. And did some squats, got back into it, and then started increasing in weight and intensity and didn't feel anything when it happened. But the next day, the pain was back from, you know, from before and much worse.

And I think it was one of those things where maybe I had had a disc issue that I corrected and then made it even worse and it wasn't going to be so easy to correct. So like I started going McKinsey again, obviously, and actually started having different back pain, almost like I was overdoing it and forcing McKinsey. So in any case, it wasn't working. So I saw chiropractic care, which

Cam (03:41)

Hmm.

Luke S (03:50)

did help some, I'll say, know, doing a flexion extension table and he gave the advice, know, strengthen your core, that sort of thing. But I don't feel that it was, I don't feel it was comprehensive enough. And there was no, I didn't even do adjustments. That wasn't a part of it. I think the doctor was really good. And my brother-in-law is actually a fantastic physical therapist, believe it or not. And he kind of knew what I had going on.

I finally got an MRI, which I had never done before, which showed an L5S1 disc herniation. So he would say, come over to the house after work, I'll put you through some exercises. And we'd do that, and then scheduling would kind of fall off. I couldn't make it work with my schedule to be there more consistently. I mean, he did always say, you need to be consistent with this stuff at home.

Cam (04:42)

Mm-hmm.

Luke S (04:46)

Like shout out to him. He is a fantastic physical therapist. I just needed something that held me accountable, that outlined exactly what to do, showed me how to do it. And I just felt like, you know, I found this online. I can't even remember where. Maybe it might have been Instagram or Reddit. just saw, you know, the program started looking into it, read some of the testimonials and then we started talking.

Cam (05:13)

Yeah, dude, I just had a flashback. I know exactly where I was when we were chatting on the phone. I needed that piece of info though. I think that your brother-in-law is a PT and I was like, my gosh, I literally remember where I was when I was chatting with you.

Luke S (05:24)

Yeah, yeah.

I think he got stung by a bee.

Cam (05:28)

Yes. my gosh.

Luke S (05:30)

Bye.

Cam (05:32)

my gosh.

yeah, I remember I was on the

walking back and forth and pacing, and that. I was like, okay, hey, well, to get ready for this podcast too, I was going back and looking at her text messages and like, I was like, all right, I want to close the loop, kind of look at this.

Luke S (05:38)

Hahaha!

Cam (05:47)

And it was funny because I have a text from you on November 16th

this was kind of making me chuckle. You're like starting tomorrow and then I'm like, LFG and then three and a half months later, you're just like, yo, finish the program. Back pain's a lot better. just kind of laughing at that. It's like started tomorrow. I did it and here I am. Right.

Luke S (06:02)

Hahaha

Cam (06:08)

you know, time will go by fast like that, but like it took work for you to get there. Now, just before we kind of get into the work that it took you to go through the program, do you have like a formal diagnosis or kind of what it is that you were dealing with?

Luke S (06:12)

Dude.

I had an L5S1 disc herniation. was, and I, you know, you could see it on the MRI, just sort of squirting out the back of my spine.

Cam (06:35)

Yeah, dude, I'm still cracking up the fact that you remember that I stepped on a bee. Okay, so L5S1 herniation. then, so like, just working back though, that was kind of something that you felt early 20s collegiately, you had some success with McKenzie, but then, you know, what did your life kind of look like after that? Was it just kind of avoiding and just being a little bit careful with your movements and stuff?

Luke S (06:41)

You

Yeah, honestly, it was just avoiding squats and deadlifts, particularly anything that was like axial loading. Deadlifts, not so bad. Squatting in particular, back squatting, like loading that spine and then going into a position that I think at the time I just wasn't flexible enough. And so, you I would get down and my hips would lock out. So my back would start to, I actually had a problem of, most people have the butt wink, right? I actually had a problem on the way up, I would arch.

Cam (07:16)

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Okay, you don't extend on that.

Luke S (07:36)

yeah, I would arch my low back a little bit and I could feel as I got heavier in weight. so, you know, recent history, I've had more, you know, I've adapted to that by doing more like a front goblet squat with a dumbbell. And that really helps. Number one doesn't have the load on my back, but also it helps balance me keeps the weight forward and in front of me. So that's really been the thing I avoided in that time. But I mean, it was pretty much gone.

Cam (07:41)

Okay.

Mm-hmm.

Luke S (08:03)

there for a while, through my early 20s.

Cam (08:07)

Okay, yeah, and then the reoccurrence of that, were you starting to freak out? you starting to have a little PTSD?

Luke S (08:14)

So at first, as you can imagine, I wasn't worried at all. I was like, I'll just hit McKenzie. This will be better, right? And then I realized, I'm approaching 30. This is worse than last time. And it hurt worse than last time. Like it was to the point that, because I sit so much, like through the weekend, I'm up around doing things, doing chores, even like walking, playing golf, fine. But Monday hits and I'm sitting all day, eight hours a day for five days.

Cam (08:24)

Yeah.

Luke S (08:44)

And it was to the point where I wanted to call like a surgeon. I just wanted to jump right to get me in with an orthopedic surgeon so I can see what my options are. And one of my clients actually, the chiropractor was like, wait a second, wait a second, come see me first. Don't jump the surgery. And he took me through some tests that was like, yeah, you don't need surgery. I know this stinks, but you know, you don't have tingling numbness, no pain when you heel drop, things like that put me through that.

Cam (09:14)

Okay.

Luke S (09:15)

So again,

I had great professionals around me. I think that's something important. It wasn't so much that my professionals failed me. It was more that I had failed them. didn't have something I could buy into to do every day to walk me through what to do and some accountability of a schedule. Yeah.

Cam (09:33)

Interesting. Wow.

So you in your mind, and so you say you're a financial planner. So you sit, I mean, essentially 40 hours a week.

Luke S (09:40)

Mm-hmm.

pretty much, I mean, walk to a meeting and walk back and that's, know, but yes, I try not to and that and car rides were like the two things. Like if I knew I had a three hour car ride coming up, it was just gonna be, you know, sit on one leg, sit on the other, lean forward, lean back. It was miserable.

Cam (09:48)

Yeah.

So you started our program like November 16th, November 17th of 2024. How many like I know you had the first back pain at 20, right? But up until this start of our program, like how long was that period of pain?

Luke S (10:23)

Probably, I want to say like nine months to a year. Miserable.

Cam (10:27)

Okay, yeah, that's not fun.

Not and I assume you're a young father you have how old's your kid?

Luke S (10:35)

So I have a two year old son and then have number two here in a couple weeks coming.

Cam (10:39)

my gosh, congrats.

Luke S (10:41)

Yeah, and that's another thing that like through the first year of his life, it was like, you know, for example, babies sometimes don't sleep, Cam. So, you know, I'd find myself in this chair, this rocking chair, holding him just like, I need to put him down because my back hurts, but I can't or if I do, it's gonna have, you know, he's gonna wake all that, right? So and even standing and bouncing him, again, it was just, I could feel my

Cam (10:51)

Yeah

Luke S (11:10)

back nagging me, fast forward to the second year of his life, like, I'm good, I can sit in this chair, you know, with pretty much pain free for certainly, you know, the 20 minutes it takes to get him down. So that's been a huge difference that I've just noticed given his first year and his second year and he's heavier. You know what I mean? So it should be worse, but it's not.

Cam (11:20)

Love.

Sure.

Right.

So what was going through your mind for that year when you're raising a young kid effectively and trying to be a father? I'm sure there's a lot going on there and juggling work as well. I mean, what was your outlook on life with pain in the background?

Luke S (11:46)

Yeah.

Yeah, it was particularly just, I would say most frustrating was work. Just, just be having to sit, you know, if I'm home on the weekend, I can be up, I can be doing things and it mostly wouldn't bother me, but it particularly affected my work, which is tied into all that, Providing for the family and all that to be miserable there. Just, it sucked.

Cam (12:20)

Yeah, are these just is financial planning? this just all like in person stuff?

Luke S (12:25)

Pretty much just given the geography of where we are, lot of our clients do want to meet in person, but some video as well in the chair.

Cam (12:31)

Okay.

And you probably, because in my mind I was like, well, why don't you just like get a standing desk or whatever, but it's like you're in the flesh doing the thing. You can't just be like, let me get up and do this stuff. Right. Like I got to conduct myself as a professional around my clients. Okay.

Luke S (12:45)

Yeah, right.

Sure. 100%. Yeah, a lot of it

is in person. So there was sitting and I actually did try a standing desk. I wasn't crazy about it for one reason or another, but yeah, so.

Cam (12:59)

Share.

Well,

yeah, not to say that me saying that obviously like the standing desk is not the panacea, right? And I think there's when people, you know, I had sciatica and back pain, you know, people were like, well, what chair do I need? And what do I need a standup desk? And it's just like all of these little things like maybe I need this mattress and I need this and I need that or I need the injection or I need the surgery. Like it kind of looking for that one thing, right?

Luke S (13:28)

and AIDS.

Cam (13:32)

I feel like I always have to caveat like, sometimes surgery is necessary. Of course, but in general, vast majority of people were looking for that one thing. So you joined Limitless. What did you learn about maybe your pre, what's the word, conceptions, inceptions? I don't know what I'm thinking. You know what mean?

Luke S (13:37)

Of course.

Yeah, I

think it was just again confirming what my brother-in-law had kind of always told me, which is there is no quick fix for this. I know you want to get your disc clipped or you want to get an adjustment that just puts everything in a line. And he was just like, dude, this isn't going to be a quick fix like you're talking about. It's not going to slap a bandaid on it, you know, by any one of those things you named and all of sudden no more pain.

Cam (14:05)

Mm-hmm.

Luke S (14:24)

So that's what I learned is, yeah, it takes consistency and patience for sure. Like you said, three, three and a half months, it flew by, but it didn't feel like it was flying by when, you know, had to, every day you need to do what the program outlines. It fell kind of slow, but it was encouraging to see progress and it wasn't immediate. I think that's another thing is.

Cam (14:29)

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Luke S (14:51)

I always wanted to like immediately go like, today, do I feel better? You know, I did it yesterday. And it doesn't, at least for me, it didn't work like that. It took a good like, you know, four weeks until I was like, huh, you know, I might be feeling a little better. And then by week, you know, five, six, seven, eight, I was like, I'm feeling a lot better. And I think that's something else too, is to keep, keep going through it. Even when it starts to feel better.

it can get better. So keep going and it can get better. So not to get lazy and be like, all right, it's gotten better. I'll just like slack off now.

Cam (15:29)

So, mean, how do you keep going in that time when you don't know or did you know is going to get better? Or how do you keep going and executing when it's not better day over day, but then suddenly it does feel like it got better day over day?

Luke S (15:46)

Yeah, I feel like, I don't know, feel like honestly our phone call and hearing from you say like, look, I've seen a lot of people go through this and most people get a lot better. And I was like, okay, like that's the case. Then I'm committed to completing the program at a minimum, which again, yes, three months flies by, but if you commit to the program and stick with it, it's not going to feel like it flies by.

Cam (16:11)

Yeah,

yeah, I've heard this, this saying it's like the days pass slow and the years pass fast. Right. And it's like, especially when you are in pain, but now it's like, man, that was, you know, just, I'm again laughing at the beast thing three and a half months ago, right. Or yeah, three and a half months ago. I'm like, that was, you know, I have so much going on in my life. I know you do too, but it's like, wow, that was a conversation that we had and

Luke S (16:17)

Exactly. Right.

Right.

Cam (16:39)

I'm just grateful we had that conversation at that time and now we're done with Q1 and you're, you know, I don't want to put words in your mouth, maybe almost pain free or you're substantially less pain. I mean, how are you feeling now?

Luke S (16:52)

Yeah, I would say 80 % pain free. I think when we set this up maybe three, four weeks ago, it was probably 60%. So it's getting better all the time. And I was telling my wife yesterday, you know, I've gone from being in constant pain anytime I'm to if I sit too long, it's mild discomfort, right? And that's a big difference between pain.

and discomfort and, and, know, even sitting here for a half hour now, I have nothing like I'm fine. I don't need to shift. I don't need to, you know what I mean? I'm just, I'm just chilling and I sat all day today. So, yeah. And if I do feel a little discomfort, I either pop up, take a walk, right? Walk around the office a couple of times or do a few of the exercises. You know what I mean? throw in some, some movement in the spine.

Cam (17:33)

So cool.

Luke S (17:49)

just to kind of loosen things up and get it moving. But again, there is a big difference between pain and mild discomfort. And the number one reason that I wanted to do the podcast is because of how much success I have. Like I feel like, you know, even though I purchased the program, I almost owe it to pay it forward to tell people like, hey, this works.

Cam (18:13)

That's incredible. Thank you for sharing that.

Luke S (18:15)

Yeah.

Cam (18:21)

You know, so you maybe you had that idea when you were dealing with pain for the year or two before you started the program that maybe it was this one thing and I need that one adjustment or like, I mean, you're like, did you actually seriously consider that you needed surgery?

Luke S (18:37)

I did, I at least wanted to see, like get an MRI and see what are my options and have, you know, lot of like my, some of my other ancillary professionals, PT chiropractors say, watch out, cause some people are like eager to cut. So if you get the wrong surgeon, they could say, yeah, you need surgery when you don't. I was kind of more hopeful, you know, again, one of the surgeons was, I knew, so I was kind of hopeful that he wouldn't. I was thinking that he might say,

Cam (18:40)

Look out.

Mm-hmm.

Luke S (19:06)

Yeah, you have a hernia disc, but you're 29. You don't need surgery. Go see a PT or chiropractor. yeah, I mean, it was bad enough. And I definitely wanted a quick fix that I would have considered it.

Cam (19:23)

Well, that's great that you had that, you know, it sounds like your brother-in-law was actually very helpful in that. and the, the Instagram Reddit gods blessed us and connected us. Right. So, well, okay. So, you know, this is why I want you on the podcast or just, you know, people go through our program. I don't think I made a promise to you on November 15th. Like you will feel like this in this time. I said, Luke, overwhelmingly, like.

Luke S (19:28)

Super.

Cam (19:52)

night, like almost 99 % of our members will feel like, I don't I don't know what the exact words were, right? But like, Luke, I really think you should do the program. I really think it's going to help you. I think you're going to get pain free or almost get out of pain in, you know, maybe this amount of time, a few months. So people hear that and like, what is the program? What does it look like? You know, so what did each day look like? What did you learn? What do you think was helpful for you?

Luke S (20:00)

Sure.

Yeah, good question. I think I and in that thread what you basically what you said was is it works if you work it and it might take time. So I'm not going to promise you that you're going to have one of these two or three weeks it's gone thing. It might be it might be doing the program once it might be doing the program three times, you know, just so that sort of thing. But what I learned

I learned that there's different aspects to mobility than just stretching. I like that the program is very fluid motion. It's not, you know, like the thing that people kept saying to me, which drove me crazy was, have back pain, stretch your hamstrings, right? Stretch your hamstrings. Sit on the floor and grab your toe and just stretch your hamstrings, right? And I used to do that and I'm like, yeah, this isn't doing much for me. Now, having said that,

Cam (21:13)

No!

Luke S (21:20)

I don't think there's any like super static hamstring hold in the program, but I went from from the program. I would say I can get halfway down my shins before trying to touch my toes, like six inches from the floor at least. But now I can almost go palms down, you know, through the hip hinges and the spinal movement, the deep squats I love. Like one of the things is the deep squat hold.

Cam (21:38)

Wow.

Luke S (21:50)

I'll do it brushing my teeth. I'll just squat down and hold it for a couple minutes just because it feels so good after. So that's what I think I learned is that there's a lot more to mobility than what you think of as stretching.

Cam (22:03)

Right. Yeah. And I think you were saying that you liked, you know, as you're asking me, Hey, should I do the program again? Or what should I do? I think you were just saying like, I'm going to go through and, you know, hammer some of the exercises that I love, like the pelvic glides. What were, you mentioned a few of those, but what were some of those movements that you learned through the program as well, you know, with your pelvis or what did you unlock there?

Luke S (22:27)

Yeah. So there was a couple other, I won't use names, but there were a couple other famous physical therapists, you know, written a couple books on back pain and this, that and the other. And the philosophy was more like avoid certain movements. like avoid bending over, always keep a flat back no matter what, you know, tie your shoes by putting your foot up on the table and bending towards it. But through this, I realized that

if taken slowly and the program is more of a crescendo up to more intense that, you know, between the pelvic tilts, pelvic glides, the quadruped tilts, the hip hinges, the, again, the deep squat, all these things that, you know, cat cows even, not only can I bend over or arch the back.

but it can help, right? If you're at the right spot in your recovery, maybe you shouldn't be arching your back over and deadlifting if you have severe pain, right? But if you feel like you're getting better and it feels comfortable through slowly getting more mobility in the spine, yeah, I have no problem doing a forward fold now. Whereas before, I was told never, ever, ever.

bend over and pick something up. And I think the wealth program is you should you can be able to you can pick up light things, right? You should be able to bend over like a normal person.

Cam (24:01)

Right. Yeah.

Almost like we understand people have a nine to five or, maybe they own a business. They got a family. They got stuff to do. They have a life. Right. And they come to us with pain. And so there are different approaches out there. Some that are very like fear mongering ask, like, don't do this. Don't do that. And I don't want to say I don't think really all these things are necessarily malicious. Like

we should constrain people to never move so they buy our program. I don't really want to say that. But I do think potentially sometimes it's misguided or it's like, hey, even if telling someone to not bend over and pick up a heavy weight is the right advice for today and tomorrow and the next week, that doesn't mean that should be the long-term rule for everyone. Like rehab is not a static kind of plan. There needs to be some sort of step

Luke S (24:31)

Yeah.

Cam (24:59)

wise approach, which is why when we chat on the phone, I tell everyone our program takes months. are eight sections, seven workouts, 56 individual 30 minute sessions where you're going to cover 120 skills. Like, I just don't know how else we change the narrative on rehab and back pain or shoulder pain, anything. Um, get it away from like three rules to like, it's a nuanced conversation.

Luke S (25:00)

Yep.

Mm-hmm.

Cam (25:25)

I don't know how else we change that conversation or even help people with that success unless we at Wealth or other companies out there are able to provide some sort of system that is going to be lengthy and connect with people who are down for a lengthy process.

Luke S (25:42)

Yep, I agree and I think one of the things for me that it again not it's not malicious They're trying to help too, but I think it kind of gave me the the impression of you're broken You're not gonna get better. So just avoid doing anything that could possibly I Don't say make it worse or cause you pain instead of let's get you Let's get you moving to a point where you can do those things without pain not give up on those things

Cam (25:49)

Mm-hmm.

Right. Yeah. I mean, there's a, you know, a full field of, I was talking to a mother yesterday, who's like 38. She's got five kids and she's talking about pain management. I'm like, personally, I really do not like the term pain management. There's a whole field, a whole system, a whole massive business opportunity in that field of pain management in which it really is like, Hey, here you are.

Luke S (26:28)

Sure.

Cam (26:37)

We are just too manage and try to slow down the deterioration with medicine or whatever it is. It's just so not inspiring. And yeah, it does treat people like you're a glass bowl and like you break and you can't be put back together. It's like, dude, we're human beings. Like we are adaptable as well. We can come into something with a lot of pain. I mean, I've seen it firsthand.

Luke S (26:53)

Yep.

Sure, yeah.

Cam (27:04)

we've had some incredible stories. I'm trying to get this one guy on the podcast. I think he's a little apprehensive to share a story, but he fell 75 feet off a cliff when he was 18, broke his femur, broke his back and didn't find us till two decades after doing the program. So he lived for 20 years after that accident. One of my favorite ones with a member, Joel, who was addicted to OxyContin, had back surgery, almost lost his family, went through the program coming off of Oxy.

Luke S (27:18)

Wow. Yeah,

Cam (27:33)

out of pain. You saw that one? Yeah,

Luke S (27:33)

I think I saw that. I think I saw that one. Yeah.

Cam (27:37)

dude, that one.

Luke S (27:39)

Crazy.

Cam (27:40)

Yeah, I'm sitting here just like, whoa, you know, cause people will tell me like this program was life saving in the exact mean that you can probably interpret, you know, like this is the last thing I'm going to do. So it's a, yeah, really a privilege to just even be here and speak with you. mean, like, I can't imagine you had a, a young kid and I'm sure maybe you had some tough thoughts going through your mind at that time, huh?

Luke S (27:43)

Yeah.

Dare and pain.

Yeah, I mean, it was hard. It sucked. But I don't know, I definitely wanted to get better. And I was willing to put in the work. just felt like, you know, I know most people don't think about this way. Maybe it's the financial planner in me, but it actually helped me to have some skin in the game, like to purchase a program, put some skin in the game where it's like, I paid for this thing.

Cam (28:13)

Yeah, you did.

Luke S (28:33)

I'm going to do it and do it the way they say. I just felt like that was helpful, weirdly. Then if I found some free program online, you know, it just wouldn't have had the same buy-in. So I feel like that was actually helpful, weirdly.

Cam (28:51)

I think you need that. And that's not to say like we need to charge 20k for our program so people have buy in. No, no, I agree. it's funny. We've done like giveaways in the past, like during promo times before a holiday sale. And we've probably done the giveaway multiple times. I don't think any of the people who have gotten the free program

Luke S (28:58)

Yeah, I don't mean to be like the number one salesman for wealth, but it's good to spend money.

Cam (29:21)

have done it. And it's not to say that you can't get something for free and not take value out of it. But I think you you have to come to a place where you are willing to put skin in the game. And financial is one of them. Time is the other. But, you know, I as you can imagine, I have a lot of conversations and phone calls and I do distinctly remember just having a very even keel conversation at ease. think we're on the same wavelength. There wasn't any

convincing of me or, you and I try not to do that regardless, because that's not a great way to conduct a conversation anyways, but it's very seamless. And the reason why that was very seamless was, you know, I'm always transparent and honest about what I think the program's gonna take. And I didn't tell you, hey, you're gonna be fixed in a day. I think that'd be scummy, right? But, you know, you were ready for that. And I think that is what it takes. Like anyone listening,

Luke S (29:53)

No.

It's easy, yeah.

Cam (30:20)

I assume if you're listening to this podcast on YouTube or Spotify, you have some sort of pain. And in your mind, you're probably contemplating like, hey, should I try to go for like a quick fix kind of thing? Or should I maybe start to think about what agency I have in my own body and what things I need to improve on? That's kind of ideally what we're trying to chat about here.

Luke S (30:43)

Yeah, I was funny I was walking in thinking about the podcast and that's one thing I would say is like You have to take ownership over it. It's not going to be a Doctor who fixes you it's not going to be some it's not gonna be a new mattress or I mean maybe you have some luck there, but

it's most likely gonna be you putting the work in. That's, yeah, I mean, that's a big part of it.

Cam (31:07)

Yeah.

Yeah. What other, as a financial planner, do you see other parallels between what you chat about with your clients or how you conduct your business? My mindset key frames that you've seen have been correlated to the rehab process.

Luke S (31:29)

Yeah, I've always equated financial health and physical health. You know, in my head, they're very similar. know, saving kind of stinks. It's not spending, right? Eating healthy kind of stinks. It's not having the doughnut, right? And doing the sometimes doing the right things are hard, right? It's hard to save money. It's hard to eat healthy. It's hard to be consistent with your workouts. So I've always sort of made that connection. I'm really into fitness, like we

we had talked about before.

Cam (31:59)

Yeah, you sent me

a picture with some fricking washboard abs, man. I'm like, you gotta be hovering at 7 % body fat.

Luke S (32:08)

Yeah, but then, you know, you, you can see that and you all like fit guy, right? And then not know can't sit for 30 minutes without pain. Right? So you never know pain is so elusive like that. So and what is what is a fit body if you're in pain and you can't bend over, right? So

I just thought, you know, what better investment to make than in my health and how I feel. Yeah, it was awesome. And I was able to, in that same thread for people who are active, I added this into my program. I didn't stop my workouts. I did this early in the morning, first thing, with my coffee while playing on the floor with my son. Like, you can make it, you can find the time. Do it while watching Netflix. There are some things that are difficult, will push you, but it's not gonna get you.

Cam (32:34)

Yeah.

Luke S (32:59)

out of breath wanting to throw up. It's not that kind of workout. Yeah.

Cam (33:01)

Right. No.

How much time did it take you? And yeah, let's walk through what your schedule is. Also let me know what your cutoff is on this.

Luke S (33:10)

Six, so I got 10 minutes. But yeah, so my schedule was I would just, again, I had bought into the program, I had bought in mentally, and so was like, all right, how do I get this done? Do it first thing. So I would wake up, I would make my coffee, and with my coffee, a lot of it's on the floor, right? I would play with my son, drink the coffee, and do the workouts, and it's at your own pace, and they give you ranges. So if I had...

Cam (33:12)

10 minutes, okay cool. All right, we'll wrap it up in 10.

Luke S (33:40)

20 minutes, it took 20 minutes. If I had 30, it took 30. But I tried to commit to not skipping days as best I could, or at least, let's say I didn't get to it one day, I would try to do it that evening, or try to do some of it throughout the day, or when I'm resting while lifting, you can do these movements. Again, they're not super strenuous, it's just, I won't even say tedious, but you have to do it, it takes time.

Cam (34:08)

Yeah. Right.

Right. Yeah. mean, yeah. TDS is it's not sexy, I guess. Fundamental. Sometimes basics gets a bad, I don't know, bad connotation. It's like, I'm beyond the basics. Like, well, no, you're not. But like, you know, the basics build into something, too. Right. I think the tough the tough thing about even saying the basics like this program can be so enlightening for people like

Luke S (34:24)

Yeah.

Cam (34:36)

It seems like it's basic, I don't know if basics is the right word because you've probably never learned a lot of these things before.

Luke S (34:43)

just what I was thinking is I do not think it's basic. I think because like what I knew, right? When you're lifting or you're a runner, right? A lot of these exercises I had never even heard of, right? And they're simple. I will say that they're simple. But as far as like the basics, if you ask somebody like, are the basics of a workout? They'd say like, I don't know, bench press, squat, pull up, right? That's not what this is.

Cam (34:55)

Mm.

Yeah.

Right.

Luke S (35:13)

and that's probably just a fundamental misunderstanding of me and a lot of people on what should be your foundation, what should be your basics. and this stuff now I see like, you know, it's important to have some mobility in your hips and your spine, to be able to strengthen muscles that get neglected in the typical basics, your hip flexors, you know, your glutes. so I had heard of some of them before, but

It's just not something, you know, if you're like bodybuilder or you're a runner or something, you're probably not doing glute bridges and pelvic glides and you know. So I have a new appreciation for it. mean, honestly, I mean this, I will probably do the program for the rest of my life as a part of my workouts now. Like just, I love it. I love to feel better and move better. It's awesome.

Cam (35:52)

No way. For sure.

Wow. That's incredible to hear. What? So, you know, you're saying like some of the movements I know you mentioned, it's tedious, right? And what we're getting at is like you throw on the limitless program and you're looking at it you're like, it's not like super sexy and fun stuff to do. Right. But what we're talking about, how it makes you feel like, that's what I want. Right. And it supports the other things that I do like to do. Right. And I know you were texting me, you like to golf.

It sounds like you have a pretty big athletic past. I assume you are still kind of working on different, you know, sports and stuff. So I mean, what is that allowing you to do today?

Luke S (36:50)

Yeah, so it used to be like last year anytime I would golf You know whether it wasn't even if I wasn't carrying a bag if I was just pushing I would leave the golf course in pain Practicing putting practicing chipping anything where I'm slightly bent over right and holding that

I would just leave in pain. now, I mean, I can carry a bag 18 holes and not have back pain. So I would say as far as that goes, it's completely alleviated that.

Cam (37:21)

Wow. So the body comp, the picture that you sent of you and your wife at the beach, seriously, I was very impressed. Have you more or less kind of hovered around that physique for a while? No, no.

Luke S (37:39)

No, no, no, that was, that was, yeah, that's been in my late twenties. Like in high school, I wanted to do that, but it's hard to get, you know, your, your mom to cook you exactly what you want to eat and stuff. You know what I mean? Like, so later in life, I was like, I can like, you know, I'm a big meal prepper. So I would prep my meals and the sort of not bulk and cut. don't

Cam (37:52)

Yeah, sure.

Okay, so you do that.

Yeah, mean, yeah. Yeah.

Luke S (38:06)

Neither here or there but definitely

go through like phases where I'm like I'm in one right now where I'm gonna take eight to ten weeks and get super duper lean Which is really just eating clean and working out. I mean, it's really not that hard. But yeah, so that's been more in the past four or five years I've made the effort to get super lean Yeah

Cam (38:18)

Yeah.

For sure.

Okay, yeah.

But what I was gonna say about that was like, you know, kind of going back to it, you have a great body composition and aesthetic, but then, and then, you know, you're able to be proud of that. And I'm sure your wife sees that in friends and family and peers are like, okay, Luke is, you know, this athlete and takes care of himself. But then like going through and having pain underlying is...

It's kind of this weird feeling. You're like, man, like I look great, but I don't feel great. You know, so, that was something that I dealt with as well when I was going through college and, very focused on aesthetics. What I will say was having the injury, I would say I probably had a borderline eating disorder and you know, body dysmorphia, blah, blah, blah, whatever you want to call it. Going through and having back pain, I would say almost in a sense,

Luke S (38:54)

Yeah.

care.

Cam (39:21)

not only did I heal that, but it healed a lot of, like body image issues and the way I look at food. Like I look more so at food now as nourishment and fuel. And like, I'm way less volatile on my perception of my aesthetics

Luke S (39:28)

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Cam (39:40)

though. My aesthetics are, they hover around the same. I'd say they're pretty good, but,

because I know I want to feel better. I'm like, okay, nutrition is important, but just looking good is probably not what I personally want. I want to feel good. don't want to have back pain. I don't want to have these things. And then I'm able to train harder. I don't know if that's been like your experience moving through that as well.

Luke S (40:02)

Yeah, I mean who cares what you look like if you can't bend over you know what I mean like I Don't yeah, I mean that's like put it

Cam (40:09)

Yeah, it's kind of,

it's kind of pathetic is harsh, but I look back on it and maybe you're kind of like, I don't know if you laugh and like, man, that was kind of pathetic. I couldn't like carry it back.

Luke S (40:25)

Yeah, no, I definitely put it off too long. That's what I would say is I was putting so much priority on work, on family, on aesthetics, on golf, right? But all it took was a little commitment, 20, 30 minutes a day to say, I'm going to address this issue that isn't going to make me straight up.

Cam (40:29)

Yeah.

Hmm.

Luke S (40:52)

isn't going make me look aesthetically better necessarily isn't going to add 50 pounds to my bench press isn't going to cut my mile time down but I'm going to feel better and it will probably help all those things as well. mean so yeah that's been my I definitely refocused and I think there's some wisdom to it like for I don't know how many have like young guys but there is some wisdom to okay you know through your early your teens in your 20s like

Cam (41:03)

Yeah.

Luke S (41:22)

know, recovery super easy, know, injuries even recover super fast. Now I'm more interested in longevity, right? Like I want to be lifting weights, exercising into seventies. You know what I mean? And I think that that starts now, especially with your spine, right? Your back in particular. I think, you know, if you ask anybody in their fifties or sixties, do you wish you took better care of your back when you were younger? They're going to say, absolutely. Right.

Cam (41:50)

Right?

Luke S (41:51)

yeah, I think that's something I just have matured in a little bit to say I'm going to address my mobility issues, my back pain and flexibility to some extent.

Cam (42:04)

Right. It's funny though, of course you look back and we go, I wish I would have done this or that. you know, I think sometimes you need a high level of discomfort or pain to actually finally force and facilitate that change. And I know that was the same for me. when I got injured and then after I went through the program, I learned all these things in hindsight. I was like, my gosh, I should have been doing this and that and telling myself like my past self should have been doing that. But

The reality is I would have never learned or made this change had I not had this level of pain. I think, you know, so that's, if you are forced and put in a position in which you have the pain, you might want to kind of think about, you know, how to change and what that would mean for you. I know you got to run. Any last remarks? I really appreciate you, for hopping on.

Luke S (42:37)

True, that's true.

Yeah, no, I would just say if you're thinking about it, do it. If you're not thinking about it, you should be. And yeah, dude, it was it was a massive, massive success. And like anybody, you know, when you're purchasing a program online, I had some doubts, which you assuaged early. But now I have the proof. Right. I mean, yeah.

Cam (43:18)

Let's go. Well, and then I think we got to get

you in the strength and conditioning program next, right? Enjoy your golf. Enjoy your golf this summer, you know, and maybe pop in on that or keep doing Limitless for the rest of your life, whatever. Either way, it sounds like we've accomplished our mission together. So thanks for joining, man.

Luke S (43:22)

Yeah, maybe, maybe.

Yeah.

Absolutely, I appreciate it, Bye.

Cam (43:39)

Hey, cheers. All right, bye.

Guest User

I Avoided Back Surgery + Got Pain Free (L5-S1 Disc Herniation) - Limitless Program Recovery

10 Years of Ankle, Knee, Hip, Shoulder, and Neck Pain Eliminated with the Limitless Program

Medical Disclaimer